Transcript Not so liquid living? Production & reproduction in Bangladeshi & Harriet Bradley

Not so liquid living? Production &
reproduction in Bangladeshi &
Pakistani women’s lives.
Harriet Bradley
Presentation to GENET conference
March 2008
Aims:
 To challenge dominant sociological
accounts of modernity
 To explore the impacts of
reproduction on women’s productive
lives
 To do so using the framework of
intersectionality by focusing on a
specific gendered and ethnicised
context: the lives of British
Bangladeshi & Pakistani (B/P) women
Liquidity and choice
 Liquid modernity: ‘a condition in which
social forms (structures that limit individual
choices, institutions that guard repetitions
of routines, patterns of acceptable
behaviour) can no longer and are not
expected to keep their shape for long,
because they decompose and melt faster
than the time it takes to cast them, and
once they are cast for them to set.’
 (Bauman Liquid Times (2007): 1)
New ‘big narratives’ : Bauman,
Beck, Giddens
 Collapse of collectivities, rise of
individualism
 ‘Disembedding’ from old communities, class
loyalties
 Individuals facing multiple choices,
‘obligations to choose’ and ethos of selfresponsibility
 Rampant & unchecked consumerism
 Transcendence of old barriers of time &
space
Whose modernity?
 This framework does not apply to
many (most?) sections of UK society,
yet is still sociological orthodoxy
 Most people’s lives are embedded and
restricted temporally and spatially
 Most people’s lives are framed by
multiple positionings in the nexus of
social divisions: class, gender,
ethnicity etc ie intersectionality
Intersections:
 Class- Many Bangladeshi & Pakistani families live in
deprived areas and experience working-class
disadvantage. Middle-class minority can play the
qualifications card, but do not benefit from it as much
as white women can
 Gender – Women’s lives are defined by sex-typing at
work and at home
 Ethnicity –Ethnic stereotypes operate, but also B/P
communities also display some distinctive practices &
values
 Religion- Muslim groups are currently demonised and
are also highly visible because of dress practices
The research: ‘Ethnic minority women and
workplace cultures’ (with G. Healy, C.
Forson & P. Kaul)
 Part of EOC’s Moving On Up initiative
 Carried out in 2006-7
 Focus on three groups among UK’s
BME population considered
particularly disadvantaged in the
labour market: Black Caribbeans,
Bangladeshis, Pakistanis
METHODS
 A multi-level research design
 Scoping interviews: 23 (covering public,
private & voluntary sectors, TUs)
 Focus groups: 11 (3 London, 3 Bristol, 1
Birmingham, 4 NHS)
 Six case studies: LA, HEI, retail, health care,
2 finance sector
 10 interviews with women, 2 with managers
 Several interviews with ethnic business
owners and employees
 130 BME women interviewed
Constraints 1: Place, time
 Women do not have free access to all the
world’s spaces
 In many public spaces women face the
threat of sexual and racist violence
 Cultural and religious ascriptions put limits
on where women may be permitted to work
 P/B women newly arrived from Asia
experience alien spaces.
Restrictions on ‘choice’
 I think location is a big thing for me, ‘cos my parents
don’t want me to go like all the way to Cribb’s Causeway.
(Bangladeshi woman)
 I mean I think Bangladeshi women are capable of doing
lots of things at home, rather than going out. Because
that’s the problem. Because most of us women we don’t
have a car. (Bangladeshi woman)
 The nursing profession is not seen as a good profession
at all. Firstly you are involved a lot more with male
patients and the male colleagues than a female. And also
you’ve got shift roles to do and you’ve got the nights,
hours in a very odd pattern which does not go with the
Muslim culture. The Muslim beliefs. (Pakistani woman).
Race and space
 There was some boys and there was a swing, and one of my
son wanted to use the swing. And then he was spitting on
my son and saying ‘What are you doing here?’ ‘Get out of our
country’ and everything ‘Paki’ and all that. .. . And they were
spitting on us, they were telling us to get out of the park and
everything. (Bangladeshi woman)
 Where I live, the British National Party was based there, the
headquarters and most of the people there are a bit… and we
don’t really go on the High Street, it’s like we get abuse all
the time. Even now we avoid the High Street. (Bangladeshi
woman)
 it’s usually like you have to come to the Jobcentre and then …
it’s just like for women, going to a Jobcentre is like whoa, it’s
a big thing you know. (Bangladeshi woman)
 She says all her family is here so she doesn’t want to go far
away. Because she likes it because there’s Bengali people
here and stuff. (Bangladeshi woman translating for another).
No go zones…

I mean I want to become an accountant. With things like
that there's always strings attached where you have to be
able to freely mix, go to parties, go to certain events, to be
known, to be recognised and that’s something Islamically I
couldn’t go because Islam does say you’re not allowed to
free mix for the sake of socialising. Yes if it’s for business
fine but where do you draw the line? I mean my brother’s
an accountant as well and he told me he had to go to the
pub, some bars, to exclusive places. It wasn’t a scene
where he wanted to go, but because to get to the top you
need to mingle with the right sort of people and that’s
where you find them. I think Islam restricts us in that sense
in the Western culture because we’re really not allowed to
do that. And I think it’s harder for a woman to be in that
arena than a man. I love my religion and there are certain
things that I wouldn’t compromise and that again is bars,
pubs, clubs. It’s a no go zone for me at all and that’s a
personal preference for me as well. Not just Islamic.
Constraints 2: Marriage &
domesticity
 Pateman: ‘sexual contract’ framework
remains valid today
 Family expectations put limits on the
‘choices’ women can make about jobs
 Domestic labour in large, poor
families can be heavy & exhausting
 Women may be required to contribute
labour to family businesses
Marriage norms: endogamy
 She did go back home to get married in
fact, because my father was under a lot of
pressure. External family pressures really
don’t help women in our society. After
marrying my sister off my father realised
that’s something he’d never do again
because it’s too much for the daughter,
bringing somebody over who doesn’t speak
the language, doesn’t know the culture,
money issues, financial burden and the rest
of it (Bangladeshi woman).
Domestic rules


When you live with in-laws there’s an automatic cultural law
that you have to wake up in the morning and make breakfast.
At lunchtime eat the food, feed the parents. In the evening
cook again because you need to feed the family. And it’s the
girl who does it. And that’s the tradition. Thankfully my inlaws aren’t so much like that but still it’s a cultural thing which
I have to fulfil. Whether I fulfil it to the max is another
question, but I have to attempt it and that’s quite daunting.
Even though they’re quite modern that still hangs on us and
that’s something we can’t get away from. And it’s nice though,
it’s fantastic. I’d love somebody to do that for my mother.
She’s not getting any younger. So I guess it’s give and take.
If I expect if for my own mother why wouldn’t somebody else
expect it for their mother? And because it’s a cultural norm you
accept it. (Bangladeshi woman)
A lot of men feel as though for a wife to work means that you
cannot afford to run your household. So it’s a pride issue as
well. And also you do have your other issue of selfishness of
some men wanting to have their fresh hot rice and curry at
lunch time plus evening. ‘I will not eat the same curry twice.’
(Bangladeshi woman)
Constraints 3. Motherhood
 Having children shown repeatedly to be major block
to women’s career progression (Bradley 1999 etc)
 Recent research:
 Gregory & Connolly; professional women found to
move down career ladder after maternity
 Paull; birth of first child leads to move to PT wk
 YouGov poll 2007, Cromer poll 2004 showed
widespread ‘maternal profiling’ among hirers
 Children become priority for most women at this
stage
 Long hours culture inhibits mothers’ working, so many
‘choose’ PT work
 Family-friendly policies have limited impact
Maternal responsibilities
 But I again think that being a housewife is a job in
itself. It’s a very important job. Because I have six
nephews and nieces and just think to myself, gosh,
their mother’s the first point of contact. If they don’t
bring them up well or teach them the good things in
life when they’re young, and if they’re out at work
they don’t get to spend that quality time with the
child, and then you have problems when the child
grows up, feels neglected and starts rebelling and the
rest of it. So how do you deal with that? But then
again people work around it. If you had extended
family, grandparents maybe you can leave your child
with that’s fantastic. But a lot of people don’t have
that luxury. And again childcare, it’s expensive you
know. (Bangladeshi women).
Family comes first…
 I think maybe because Muslim women their main drive is
their family. First and foremost it’s their family. Because
for me yes, I come to work but always my number one
priority is the family. Maybe I come to work because I
can’t afford to stay at home. So economically yes, they
will like to do well but their comfort and their welloffness is in terms of having a happy family. (Pakistani
woman)
 I’d probably look for part time work and not a completely
full-time post these days, simply because you know my
daughters are still young, they still need mummy all the
time. I had my little one who used to say ‘Well don’t go
all day, I don’t want you to go all day.’(Bangladeshi
woman)
Different priorities?
 I think culture does come into it because being
a Muslim my priority is my family so my aim
would be to go home, rather than go to the
pub and get drunk or whatever so I think that
there is a cultural difference, a priority
difference.. Maybe I’m being superficial
between white and coloured people. I know
my own community, our priority would be to go
home and be with our family, with our kids
whatever, rather than go to the pub, get drunk,
have a good time. But again like I said I could
be generalising. (Pakistani woman)
Constraints 4. Racism & sexism
 Muslim women face Islamophobia because
of their religion
 They also face ‘colour racism’ &
stereotyping because of their appearance
 There is hostility and racist abuse from
clients and customers
 Both racist & sexist assumptions bar
women from some jobs & from promotions
Racism and stereotyping
 What happens is if you turn up to a workplace with
shalwar kameez with the scarf round your head, … you
get treated differently. Cos recently I’ve started to wear
more shalwar kameez at work…But I just feel when I
walk into a meeting, the response I get now, you know,
they don’t see you as … not the manager type…Or you
know not a professional … I’m doing exactly the same
type of work that I used to do wearing you know like a
western suit. (Bangladeshi woman)
 I had it a couple of months ago where he called me a
Muslim terrorist and what have you … Because he
wanted to open an account and he didn’t have the
correct ID. I explained it to him, it’s because of money
laundering and it’s because obviously the procedures
that we’ve got. And he said ‘It’s your lot that are the
terrorists that do money laundering not me’ .(Pakistani
woman).
Visual perceptions
 Nasiha: In some jobs appearance is everything isn’t
it? I mean when you wear your headscarf and all that
and you’ve got dark skin.. Sometimes, some
secretary jobs because you know you’re the first point
of contact. You have to look presentable and all that.
If you have a headscarf some white people –
 Yasmin …They might threatened especially now most
of the people after the terrorists they feel even on the
bus if you’re just sitting there if you’ve got a
headscarf they think – you know, God knows what's
going to happen….even if we don’t do anything we
won’t feel approachable and people like – the people
that are recruiting you - might think that the
customers not going to feel very….(Bangladeshi
women)
People differ…
 I feel I’ve fully integrated but I know that other
women at work who cover their head or dress in a
more ethnic way comments are made and they’re not
promoted as they should be (Pakistani).
 You want to be normal. You don’t want to feel
different, you don’t want to feel special. There’s no
reason to. You know we’re just average –we’re like
everybody else. Yes we’re slightly different in ideas
and thoughts but no two people are the same.
(Bangladeshi
Racist bars to multiethnic harmony

The anti Muslim and the media promotion of possible
potential terrorism without any real grounds to it, it’s
making moderate Muslims like myself worry what the future
is here and whether we’re going to be discriminated
against. I don't think we have a voice. There isn’t
anybody who will listen to people like us. I understand
there are the disaffected youth in the minority, the
extremists, but their behaviour and the retaliation or how
the police or the government are coping with it – it’s
causing real issues for people like us. I don’t think there's
any real communication and that’s what needs to be
addressed. And it will have a knock-on effect on where we
work, how we are seen on the street. Most of us do want to
integrate but I’m not sure they will be allowed to and that’s
going to affect our lives, our children’s lives. (Pakistani
woman)
CONCLUSIONS
 B/P women’s lives are very limited as to
choice
 They are placed at particular intersections
of class, gender, ethnicity, religion
 Class- m/c women more likely to ‘integrate’
to have quals, careers
 Maternity is a major source of lack of
choice for all ethnic groups of women,
marriage more of a constraint for B/P and
marriage is almost universal for them
 ‘Maternal penalty’ a powerful effect
Conclusions
 Motherhood and
domesticity
continue to
structure the lives
of women albeit in
different ways
according to the
patterns of
intersectionality
Experiencing the maternal
dilemma: ‘femme maison’
 ‘I have been plunged into
social and psychological
conditions of mothering
that are actually worse
than my mother
encountered in the
1950s. Social mobility
has meant no
grandparents to call on
and no extended family
networks for support.
Lack of funding for
nannies, the tyranny of
the 3pm school gate and
the isolation of the
modern nuclear family
means that, in this socalled post-feminist era,
I have little more choice
than my own mother.’
CONCLUSIONS
 It is quite untrue that ‘structures that limit individual
choices, institutions that guard repetitions of routines,
patterns of acceptable behaviour’ are melting &
decomposing.
 Reproduction & production are much more central
preoccupations for these women than consumption
 Family and communities remain powerful collective
forces

‘There aren’t many people in Muslim families who talk of
the importance of their being happy, because the whole
unit of the family is where your pleasure would have to
be subsumed’ (Hanif Kureishi)
 The ‘big narrative’ of modernity is masculinist, fitting
only the lives of w/c white males
Related publications
 Gender (Polity 2007)chapter on
reproduction
 Ethnic minority and workplaces cultures:
what works and what doesn’t (H.Bradley,
G.Healy, C.Forson and P.Kaul) EOC 2006
 Ethnicity & Gender at Work (H. Bradley &
G. Healy) forthcoming, Palgrave July 2008
 ‘Gendered futures: production and
reproduction in women’s lives’ In
F.Simonstein (ed) Reprogenetics & the
Future of Gender Springer, forthcoming
2009