Transcript ONE IN CHRIST The Silence of Women Our traditional Christadelphian approach to understanding a Bible passage is to: Look at what the text is.

ONE IN CHRIST
The Silence of Women
Our traditional Christadelphian approach to
understanding a Bible passage is to:
Look at what the text is saying,
Place it in the CONTEXT of where it’s found,
Then in the broader context of the rest of the Bible,
Then take into account what is known of the period
when it was written.
Then apply the principle
today.
I believe this approach
is correct.
We have always applied this approach to the
verses which seem, at face value, to support
the Trinity, or a personal devil.
But we don’t apply this method when studying
the apparent command for the silence of
women in 1 Corinthians 14 and 1 Timothy 2.
SAMPLE OF VERSES WE DON’T TAKE AT FACE VALUE
John 3:13 He that came down from heaven... Job 1:6 Satan also came among them...
John 6:33 The bread which came down from Isaiah 14:12 Lucifer fallen from heaven...
heaven...
Matt. 4:1-11 Jesus tempted of the devil
John 6:62 Ascend up where He was before... Luke 10:18 Satan as lightning fall from
John 8:23 I am from above...
heaven...
John 8:58 Before Abraham was, I am
Luke 22:3 Satan entered Judas
John 10:30 I and my Father are one
Luke 22:31 Satan has desired to have you
John 20:28 (spoken to Jesus) My Lord and my John 12:31 The prince of this world...
God.
John 13:2 The devil put into the heart of
Romans 9:5 The human ancestry of the
Judas
Messiah, who is God over all...
John 13:27 Satan entered him
Hebrews 1:2 He has appointed heir of all
2 Cor. 11:14 Satan transformed into an angel
things, through whom also He made the
of light...
worlds...
James 2:19 Demons believe and tremble...
Hebrews 1:10-12 To the Son He says... “ You, 1 Peter 5:8 Your adversary the devil...
LORD, in the beginning laid the
Jude 9 Michael contending with the devil
foundation of the earth.”
180 examples in Wrested Scriptures covering Rev. 12:7-9 There was war in heaven...
about 30 topics of confusing verses.
VERSES WHICH APPEAR TO COMMAND
THE SILENCE OF WOMEN
1 Tim. 2:11-12
1 Cor. 14:34-35
FOUR VERSES IN TWO PASSAGES BY PAUL
Yet there are the equivalent of a couple of chapters
which contradict this idea and teach that
women DID and SHOULD,
speak, pray and teach.
Both common sense and Christadelphian tradition
say go with the majority of passages and doubt
the face value of the minority. This principle has
been applied to other issues but ignored for
this one.
Old Testament - WOMEN WHO SPOKE
Not as many as men, but enough to show that they had God’s approval
Miriam
The first prophetess
mentioned and she had a
leadership role.
“I sent Moses to LEAD you,
also Aaron and Miriam.”
Micah 6:4
Deborah
Abigail
Gave wise instruction to
David. She opposed her
husband’s orders. David
said to her, “The God of
Israel has sent you...I have
hearkened to your voice.”
1 Samuel 25:35
Words of Women
Deborah judged Israel and
The prayer of Hannah (1 Sam. 2)
was a prophetess and
is recorded for our
leader. She did not defer
learning. It pointed to
to her husband Lapidoth
Jesus and was picked up
Huldah
in silence, she gave orders
by Mary a millennium
Another prophetess. The most
to the commander of the
later and quoted in her
influential men in the land
army. She gave judgement
song of praise (Luke 1:46-55).
came to her to enquire of
– obviously spoken – to
God made sure their
God. She told them God’s
the people. She had God’s
words were heard ever
message. 2 Kings 22:14
approval. Judges 4:5
after.
RUTH
The words and actions of
Ruth have spoken through the ages
as part of scripture - and not only was
she a woman but a Moabitess!
God caused the words of many women
to be recorded for our learning and
to be read out loud in synagogues and
churches, but woe betide the woman
who reads them out.
ESTHER
Esther organised a fast and GAVE
INSTRUCTION for all the Jews living in
Susa “Don’t eat or drink for three days.”
It was because Esther DIDN’T KEEP
SILENT that she is an example to us.
“If you remain silent at this time relief
and deliverance for the Jews will
arise from another place.” Esther 4:15-16
Esther put her life on the line by
speaking out.
“Where you go I will go, and where you stay I
will stay. Your people will be my people and
your God my God. Where you die I will die,
and there I will be buried. May the LORD deal
with me, be it ever so severely, if even death
separates you and me.”
Ruth 1:16-17
The Perfect Woman of
Proverbs 31
The description of the woman in Proverbs 31 is another chapter of the Bible which came
from a woman.
Verse 1 “The sayings of King Lemuel — an inspired utterance his mother taught him.”
The woman in this chapter mixes with the household, servants, traders, the poor and
needy and in verse 26 “She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of
kindness is on her tongue.”
She imparts both wisdom and kindness in her teaching, to all she meets.
WHY NOT MORE WOMEN?
Apart from women having the care of the children –
Under the Law regulations to do with having children made
women unclean for long periods.
If she had a son she was unclean for forty days.
If she had a daughter she was unclean for eighty days.
Every month she was unclean for 7 days and then had to wait another 7
days to be ceremonially clean. Anyone who touched her was unclean
until evening. No wonder women weren’t priests. No wonder Jesus
didn’t send women out in a culture where people wouldn't have
accepted them.
But this whole way of thinking was changed. Peter was told by God
“What God has cleansed you must not call common.” Acts 11:9
Not only animals were cleansed, so were women. In Christ women were
given a new freedom. Their blood had made them unclean for so
long, but the blood of Jesus cleansed them. Jesus was born of a
woman and His death gave life and cleansing to them. His first
miracle turned the water in the purification jars into wine – symbol of
His death cleansing us from sin. The water would no longer be needed
for purification.
By the time of Jesus, it was the oral laws of the Jews, not the
Old Testament teaching, which demanded women to be silent.
It was traditions of men which silenced women, not commands from God.
MISHNAH/TALMUD SAYINGS
“Out of respect to the congregation, a woman should not herself read in the law.”
“It is a shame for a woman to let her voice be heard among men.”
“The voice of a woman is filthy nakedness.”
These are some, out of many, of the Jewish
sayings.
Josephus summed them up:
“Thus says the scripture, a woman is inferior
to her husband in all things.”
No such verses exist in the Old Testament.
In theory a woman could read in the
synagogue, but in practice it was considered
a disgrace.
Jesus didn’t tell women they must be silent – He
surprised his disciples by going against the
traditions of men where women were
concerned.
According to the law the woman caught in adultery
should be stoned. Jesus set her free.
According to the law the woman with the flow of
blood for twelve years was unclean, also
anyone she touched – Jesus healed her, not
bothered by her ‘unclean’ touch.
If there were a law that women should have their
hair covered, then surely being in the presence
of Jesus would be the time for it – but Jesus let
a sinful woman wipe his feet with her hair.
Some Rabbis regarded women as unworthy of
spiritual instruction – Jesus taught men and
women.
When Jesus said to the Syro-Phonecian woman, "It
is not good to take the children's bread and
throw it to the dogs” – I don’t believe Jesus
was calling her a dog I believe he was voicing
the hidden prejudices of the disciples – saying
out loud what they were thinking – Jesus
regarded her as a faithful woman.
In John 4 Jesus not only taught spiritual truths to a
Samaritan woman at the well, but many came
to believe because of the words she spoke
(John 4:39).
In Luke 8 he was accompanied by women as He
preached the gospel. “The Twelve accompanied
him, and also some women.”
It was women who stood at the cross when others
had fled. It was a woman who anointed Jesus
for His death.
According to tradition women weren’t accepted as
witnesses. But it was women who were chosen
as the first to witness the resurrection (the
men didn’t believe them). “Later Jesus
appeared to the Eleven ... he rebuked them for
their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to
believe those (women) who had seen him after
he had risen” ( Mark 16:14).
FREEDOM IN CHRIST
The New Testament demonstrates and supports women’s active
participation in spoken ecclesial activities – alongside the men.
Acts 2 states “All received the holy spirit, all spoke
in tongues”.
Peter explained that this was a fulfilment of Joel 2
“your sons and DAUGHTERS shall prophesy”.
Other women are mentioned in passing in
active roles.
Phoebe was a servant/deacon of the church in Cenchrea in Romans 16:1-2.
Priscilla and her husband taught others and opened their home to them. “When
Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and
explained to him the way of God more accurately.”
Acts 18:26, 1 Cor. 16:9
But what of the two passages
in Corinthians and Timothy
which seem to support
the silence of women in the church?
1 Corinthians 14
“34 Women should remain silent in the churches.
They are not allowed to speak, but must be in
submission, AS THE LAW SAYS. 35 If they want to
inquire about something, they should ask their
own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for
a woman to speak in the church.”
This is very strong language –
but is Paul giving this as a command?
Or could there be another explanation?
LETS KEEP IN MIND
WHAT the text is saying
The CONTEXT of where it’s found
The BROADER CONTEXT
of the rest of the Bible
What is known of the PERIOD WHEN
IT WAS WRITTEN
CONTEXT within 1 Corinthians
Paul is answering questions and dealing with problems.
He doesn’t expect women to be silent because –
1 Cor. 11 discusses what men and WOMEN will wear when PRAYING AND PROPHESYING
– both spoken activities.
1 Cor. 12-14 – discusses prophesying further and addresses both men and WOMEN.
1 Cor. 12:1 – addresses all the ecclesia: “brothers and sisters (adelphoi, NIV 2010)”
1 Cor. 12:27 – “you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.”
1 Cor. 14:1 – they are to “eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy”
1 Cor. 14:5 – “I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy”.
1 Cor. 14:26 – “When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction,
a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation.” – Each of these is a spoken activity.
Where did they get this practice from? – Paul had started the ecclesia in Corinth
(Acts 18) and stayed over a year. – The IMMEDIATE CONTEXT is that Paul
approved and encouraged both men and women speaking in the ecclesial meetings.
WIDER CONTEXT – Women spoke, judged, prophesied, led.
MAKING SENSE OF IT
1 Cor. 14:34-35 can’t be saying the opposite of what is established by
the immediate and broader context of the Bible.
SO HOW DO WE EXPLAIN IT? – There are several possible answers.
QUOTATION
1 Cor. 7:1 – "Now for the matters you wrote about”.
We know that the "difficult passage" (1Cor.14:34,35) is in reply to the report
Paul has received of disorder during worship. The disadvantage is that we have
Paul's answers but we don't have the questions. It’s not always clear when
Paul is quoting what has been sent to him, and when he is replying to it.
It would be clearer if quotation marks were added.
To give an example – 1 Cor. 10:22-23
The NIV inserts quotation marks to make what is being quoted clearer –
“Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we
stronger than he? ‘I have the right to do anything,’
you say – but not everything is beneficial.
‘I have the right to do anything’ – but not everything
is constructive.”
Other versions don’t have the quotation marks.
QUOTATION
If we understand that in 1 Cor. 14 Paul is QUOTING ideas that
are causing trouble... then saying “What rubbish!”, followed by a very definite
dismissal of such ideas which are so opposed to his teaching and practice, it all
makes sense. The KJV and RSV use the word “What” as an exclamation. It's the
point at which the quote ends and Paul gives his opinion.
Note: Quoted part (RSV) in red – to which Paul is replying – Paul’s words in blue.
32”And the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. (Wives may be subject to
husbands, but those who prophesy – male or female – are subject to the other
prophets and have to wait their orderly turn to speak) 33For God is not a God of
confusion but of peace. (Change of pace as Paul quotes the idea causing trouble)
As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the
churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as
even the law says. 35If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their
husbands at home. For it is a shame for women to speak in church”.
36What? (What nonsense!) Did the word of God originate with you? (the men
saying a woman’s voice shouldn’t be heard) or are you the only ones it has
reached? (the men thinking the word of God can only be spoken by them – Paul is
saying it’s for all – men and women alike).
…cont
37If
any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that
what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord.” (the things Paul writes
about prophets being subject to prophets and doing things in an orderly
manner).
In verses 39-40 Paul again says that both men and WOMEN are to speak in church:
“Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid
speaking in tongues. But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.”
When Paul says “in a fitting and orderly way”, he means that both brothers and
sisters should speak in the meeting, but one at a time and in a way which shows
respect for one another. So 1 Cor. 14:35-35 can’t be saying that women
shouldn’t speak or he contradicts himself
“sisters, be eager to prophesy” (v39)
CONTRADICTS
“they are not permitted to speak” (v34)
-
“For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate,
as even the law says” 1Cor 14:34
If you try and take these words at face value then where in the law can you find them?
The traditional view is that Paul is referring to Gen. 3:16
“your desire will be to your husband, and he will rule over you”
I don’t believe Paul was quoting this verse but was quoting the teaching of the Rabbis
who misunderstood it and had made their own laws surrounding it.
I believe that Gen. 3:16 is a statement that men would dominate women. It doesn’t mean
it was right – nowhere in the Bible is this verse quoted with approval.
Another example from Eden – the serpent struck the seed of the woman.
“He will crush your head and you will strike His Heel”. We don’t say it
was right that the serpent struck the heel of Jesus - we say it was a
prophecy of the future. It was NOT right or just – therefore the grave
could not hold Him. Statements of future events don’t necessarily
endorse them - they state what is going to happen.
FACT – Women have been dominated by men.
Why would Paul refer back to the law to keep women silent (if there were
such a law) when he consistently says that
IN CHRIST WE ARE SET FREE
and we are
NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW?
Romans 6:14
“For sin shall no longer be your master,
because you are not under the law, but
under grace.”
Galatians 4:5
“God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under
the law, to redeem those under the law.”
SPIRITUAL GUIDANCE FROM HUSBAND OR GOD?
I refer here to the research of Lisa Thatcher –
‘Katherine C. Bushnell says that a more accurate translation of Gen. 3:16 would be, “Thou art
turning away to thy husband, and he will rule over thee.” She notes that the word teshuqah is the
same one found in Genesis 4:7 and Song of Solomon 7:10. The word does not connote sexual
attraction or lust as so many have interpreted it; she cites numerous ancient sources to show that it
was understood to mean that Eve turned away from God to form an alliance with her husband.
Thus God warned Eve that if she turned from God to her husband, she would not find the
companionship she sought but one who would dominate her.’
In other words, God’s message was a warning to Eve that if she turned to her husband instead of
turning to God, her husband would dominate and control her. She was not to turn from God to her
husband ever again. It is interesting that this is how the LXX (Septuagint, the Greek version of the
OT regularly quoted by writers in the NT) translates it: “Your turning shall be to your husband and he
will rule over you.” It is never cited in the Bible as something good!
It doesn’t make sense that women shouldn’t speak but must ask their
husbands at home. What if he is less knowing than she is? What about
Abigail married to Nabal?
We know the consequences for Saphira when she turned to her husband. If
women don’t have to think for themselves but ask their husbands then
it takes away their responsibility – and their relationship with God.
It’s an imperfect world. What if a woman has several husbands who divorce
her? You can’t count on a husband being your source of spiritual
guidance. That was the message to the Samaritan woman, she would
find guidance in Jesus.
Other possibilities have been put forward to explain the
inconsistent verses of 1 Cor. 14
BUT WHETHER
– Quotation
– Interpolation
– Wives Chattering
OR
– Written by Paul in a completely
different context
THE CONTEXT – both immediate and after
– and of the Bible message as a whole
– prevents us from simply taking these verses at face value
and out of their context.
What of the verses in 1 Timothy 2:11-15?
“Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not
permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to
be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam
was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into
transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if
they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.”
Consider the CONTEXT of 1 Timothy. Paul was giving advice for BEHAVIOUR and
warning against FALSE TEACHING
(1Tim.1:3).
“Silence” in verse 12 does not necessarily mean ‘without sound’.
It is the Greek work hesychia, carrying the idea of quietness – as in a “quiet and
peaceable life” (1 Tim 2:2).
LOCAL PROBLEMS
Paul told Timothy “stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to
teach false doctrines any longer or to devote themselves to myths.” (1 Tim. 1:3)
1 Tim. 5:13-15 gives a clue that false doctrines were being spread by women, and their
behaviour was not right.
“But refuse the younger widows; for when they have begun to grow wanton against Christ, they desire to marry, 12
having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith. 13 And besides they learn to be idle, wandering
about from house to house, and not only idle but also gossips and busybodies, saying things which they ought not.
14 Therefore I desire that the younger widows marry, bear children, manage the house, give no opportunity to the
adversary to speak reproachfully. 15 For some have already turned aside after Satan.”
So it seems that there was a problem with the younger widows
being deceived by Satan, or wrong teachings and wrong behaviour.
Paul’s reference to “Satan” is another link to Eve being deceived by
the serpent (Satan) and the younger widows being led astray.
Paul’s advice was for a specific group. Not all young widows
have these character flaws. It was advice for those particular widows.
Anna had been a young widow – she wasn’t silenced or told to re-marry. She spent her life
in worship in the temple. She was a prophetess and spoke to “ALL (men and women)
who were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem”. The instructions in 1 Timothy are
another example of Paul’s advice for a local situation not applying in a broader context.
BOSSY WOMEN
When Paul speaks of not permitting a woman to exercise “authority” over a man in 1
Tim.2:12, the word he uses only occurs once in the Bible. There is debate whether it
means “exercise authority”, “assume authority” or “exercise a dominating authority”.
The idea in 1 Timothy 2:11-15 seems to be that Paul was speaking about
women who had gone too far. They were dominating the men and were in doctrinal
error, going after Satan, being deceived and not behaving as Christians.
Paul’s point here seems to be that women with wrong doctrine are not to take control
and dominate the men.
POINTS
We need to understand the CONTEXT of Paul’s advice.
Women who still needed to learn and had been deceived
by false teaching were trying to teach men.
We can’t deduce from this that women are more easily
deceived than men – it was advice for the local context,
not a rule for all time.
PAUL’S REAL POINT
In Eden, Eve was deceived by the serpent and transgressed. In Ephesus some women
were deceived by false teachers, and for this reason they transgressed.
In 1 Timothy 2:14 the emphasis is on the
fact that Eve was deceived not Adam.
It reveals the context in which the letter was written.
i.e. women are the ones who were causing the trouble
by being taken in by false doctrine and by being vocal.
In l Timothy, as in many other places, Paul is addressing
a specific situation.
In Timothy Paul compares the WOMEN being deceived to Eve being deceived, but in
2 Cor. 11:3 he addresses both MEN AND WOMEN and says the same thing.
“I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him.
3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may
somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.”
– same argument, but this time applies it to men as well, to ALL in the church at Corinth.
ORDER OF CREATION
Much has been made of Eve’s creation, made second. Even more has been made of her
being the first to sin (though Paul never said that).
Paul’s reference to Eve being deceived was in the context of women in Ephesus being led
to wrong doctrine – not a statement of her sin being greater than Adam’s.
Paul’s reference to Adam being made first was to counter the women trying to dominate
the men. It was not a statement that men should dominate women.
The order of creation isn’t the point! Man was made after the animals yet had authority
over them. Jesus was made after Adam yet is greater. Jesus turned the order of
everything around. He washed the disciples feet and explained the least is the greatest.
Man being the head of woman is not an excuse to dominate her, but is in the context of
cherishing and loving her as his own flesh and applies to husbands and wives. It is not
stated in this context that she should be silent. Christ is the head of man but that does
not mean that men should be silent.
LOGIC
When we consider the message of the Bible as a whole, and
aren’t misled by the face value of two passages –
then it’s apparent that in 1 Timothy Paul was not telling
women for all time that they could not speak, but was giving
advice to Timothy as to how to deal with a specific local problem.
Likewise 1 Cor. 14 can’t contradict the advice Paul has already
given to the contrary.
Paul wasn’t saying women were not to
speak, rather he gave advice about
the manner in which they should.
MODERN DAY EXAMPLES
Sister Ludmila C in Ukraine preached to everyone she knew through her pet food kiosk.
Many of her clients and their families were baptised, both men and women. Ludmila
taught them in her home, and eventually about fifty people were baptised in her town
due to her work. All were happy being taught by her before and after their baptisms.
Sister Ludmila K in Kazakhstan and Russia did the same - but on an even bigger scale. She
taught and baptized over three hundred people in the small towns where she had
worked as a factory manageress. In her retirement, she went to all the people who had
ever worked under her and told them the good news of the Kingdom. She used to run
three breaking of bread meetings per Sunday in her home, as there wasn't enough
room to fit everyone. To quote Brother Duncan Heaster
“she was one of the most dynamic preachers of the Gospel we have known in
this generation”.
ALL USING OUR TALENTS
These two sisters are wonderful examples of correctly applying Bible teaching to use
our gifts to spread God’s word, to instruct or preach, whether we are male or
female. We are all one in Christ.
“Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters...
Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all
have the same function, so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each
member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace
given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with
your faith; if it is serving, then serve: if it is teaching, then teach; if it is to
encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to
lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.”
“ I myself am convinced, my brothers and sisters, that you yourselves are full of
goodness, filled with knowledge and competent to instruct one another.”
Romans 12:4-8, and Romans 15:14
Paul’s final comment about teaching is in 2 Timothy 2:2
“And the things you have heard me say in the presence
of many witnesses
entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to
teach others.”
New NIV © 2010
“reliable people” = men and women, not just men.
We should follow the biblical doctrine and practice of
"all one in Christ"
not traditions of men.
“To all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He
gave the right to become children of God – children born not of
natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but
born of God.” John 1
Robin Jones
Thanks to Ted Russell, Lisa Thatcher, Peter Baylis
and Ian & Averil McHaffie for their ideas and research, and to those who have offered
helpful comments on my previous versions of this PowerPoint.
[email protected]