Transcript Apostasy in Adventism A Long Time Coming Do We Still Believe? • “And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven,

Apostasy in Adventism
A Long Time Coming
Do We Still Believe?
• “And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the
everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth,
and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying
with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of
his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and
earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. And there
followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that
great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the
wrath of her fornication. And the third angel followed them,
saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his
image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The
same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured
out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall
be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy
angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:” Revelation 14:7-10
If you Do?
• If you do, THEN you are at odds with quite a group of
men!
• 1. SDA pastor
• 2. Dr. Leroy Froom
• 3. Former GC President Neal Wilson
• 4. Dr. Bert B. Beach
• 5. Dr. Raoul Dederen, Andrews University
• 6. SDA Tele Evangelist George Vandemann
• 7. Associate editor, Adventist Review Roy Adams
• 8. Associate editor, Adventist Review Myron Widmer
• 9. Editor, Adventist Review William Johnson
• 10. Andrews University professor,
Abomination
• A recent article appeared in Adventist Today
Magazine in which an SDA pastor, Loren Seibold, in
good and regular standing as a conference minister,
attempted to explain all the reasons why we
shouldn’t teach that the papacy is the antichrist
anymore. Many were alarmed by the article, but
one person’s response was fascinating to me. It
read, “Oh, that is a liberal magazine and doesn’t
represent what the church believes at all.” Oh,
really? Has anyone been watching the trend over
the last 50 years? Are we so asleep?
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The Article
Adventist Today Magazine January 04, 2010
Letting Roman Catholics Off the Hook
Posted January 4th, 2010 by Loren Seibold
Editor's Note: This is a preview article that appears on page 22 of our brand-new
winter 2010 print issue being delivered to our subscribers this month.
By Loren Seibold For over a century, even before the publication of The Great
Controversy, we Adventists have regarded the Roman Catholic Church leadership,
typified in the first beast of Revelation 13, as our arch-nemesis, our bête noire, the
enemy that takes the evil part in the apocalyptic scenario against God's remnant.
Here are seven reasons why it may be time to question them in that role.
1. More than a hundred years have passed since our prophet approved these
prophetic applications. Ellen White expected Jesus to return long before
this.1 We're not sure why that hasn't happened. But isn't it possible that some
details of the apocalyptic scenario set out in the 1890s may have changed by the
2010s? It happened to Israel. Not all of the original Old Testament prophecies
about them and their role came to pass. We call it "conditional prophecy."
2. Principles might be more diagnostic than players. That we oppose those who
would legislate matters that should be left to an individual's conscience is a
principle I value, and I'm proud of Seventh-day Adventist efforts to protect religious
liberty. But if it should happen that someone other than the Roman Catholic
Church begins to act like the beast of Revelation 13, we will be more ready to
respond if we are watching for a violation of the principle than if waiting for one
specific group to offend.
continued
• 3. Ellen White fingered Catholicism in a very different world. Historians
have shown that 19th-century American anti-Catholicism grew out of a
general anti-immigrant nativism.2 In an era when we have had and could
again have a liberty-loving Roman Catholic president, when Catholic
immigrants have become our young work force, why can't we preach the
gospel without identifying Roman Catholicism as Satan's exclusive tool?
• 4. The Roman Catholic Church of today is a much different institution
than it was during Ellen White's time. The Second Ecumenical Council of
the Vatican (1962-1965) radically altered that denomination's theology and
practices. Vatican II declared the gospel central to church theology, made
worship accessible, denied that Roman Catholics only can be saved,
encouraged lay Bible study, and affirmed religious liberty. While not quite a
Protestant Reformation, today's Catholic Church is not the same Catholic
Church referenced in our 19th-century eschatological studies. Among other
things, the Second Ecumenical Council weakened Vatican authority over
world Catholics-as evidenced by the 78 percent of American Catholics who
oppose their church's ban on contraception.3
Cont.
• 5. By focusing on Roman Catholicism, we may miss more
dangerous anti-Christian opponents. Far more Christians have
been killed, persecuted, or denied their religious liberty by
Communism, military Fascism, and Islamist extremism in the past
century than by Roman Catholics; we've let these pass with
minimal comment (in the case of Naziism, even offering some
pusillanimous cooperation) as we continued to warn against the
pope. Today religious liberty still has more dangerous enemies
than Catholicism–in the United States, perhaps even some of our
fellow conservative Protestants.
• 6. God has given us time to become a world church, and that
changes the cast of characters in our eschatology. The
"antichrists"-opposers of Christ–to many of today's world
Christians are radical imams or cruel dictators. One site of
Christian persecution right now is northern Nigeria, where
Muslims burn churches and kill Christians.4 An eschatology that
expects only Roman Catholics to initiate religious oppression, only
in the United States, and only around the Sabbath question, may
fail to speak prophetically should apocalyptic markers appear
elsewhere.
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Cont.
7. Religious liberty has arguably improved in countries where Catholicism has
influence. During my lifetime, the papacy has frequently been a force for peace and
freedom. Pope John Paul II opened the first breach in the Iron Curtain, and Catholics have
been more forthright in speaking against violence and oppression than many of our fellow
conservative Protestants. Consider the irony that our evangelists are employing anti-Catholic
teachings for soul winning in countries where the papacy helped win them that freedom!
(And the even greater irony that some of us still think that calling the Pope the Antichrist is
necessary to win souls to Christ.)
Of course, we don't give the Roman Catholic church a free pass; we subject it to the same
Biblical scrutiny we would any other influential world power. (And while we're at it, we'd do
well always to scrutinize ourselves by the same metrics we use on others–which is Jesus'
advice, not mine.5)
But perhaps we needn't single out Roman Catholicism any longer. Ellen White, who was
often more flexible than her followers, wrote: "God wants us all to have common sense, and
He wants us to reason from common sense. Circumstances alter conditions. Circumstances
change the relation of things."6
Roman Catholicism has served us well as an enemy: provocative enough to keep us
energized, yet doing minimal actual damage to us. Such an important enemy made us feel
significant, "in the know," and in control, while not really disturbing our lives.
Opposing current enemies might thrust us into prophetic roles that take more commitment
and action. My friend Bert B. Beach, speaking of Adventist eschatology, once said to me: "I'm
suspicious when people are constantly focused on what's going to happen in the future. I
think they're trying to avoid dealing with what's going on right now."
I think Bert is on to something. Could we become as enthusiastic in taking on the religious
persecution that's happening to Christians right now, in places like Nigeria, as we've been in
accusing Roman Catholicism of planning to someday persecute us here? -Adventist today
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Let’s Go Back-------Evangelical Conferences in
the 1950’s
"Till this day we do not know, and are not supposed to know,
who carried on the conferences with the evangelicals. We do
not know, and are not supposed to know, who wrote
Questions on Doctrine. Diligent inquiry produced no result.
We do not know, and are not supposed to know, just what
changes were made, and in what books, concerning the mark
of the beast and the nature of Christ while in the flesh. We do
not know who authorized the omission of the thirteenth
chapter of Revelation in our Sabbath school lessons for the
second quarter of 1958, which deals with the mark of the
beast. Dr. Barnhouse reports that to "avoid charges brought
against them by the evangelicals," the Adventists "worked out
arrangements" that concerned the Voice of Prophecy, and the
Signs of the Times.“ Andreasen
Neal Wilson
• "Although it is true that there was a period in the life of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church when the denomination took a
distinctly anti-Roman Catholic viewpoint...that attitude on the
church's part was nothing more than a manifestation of
widespread anti-popery among conservative Protestant
denominations in the early part of this century and the latter part
of the last, and which has now been consigned to the historical
trash heap so far as the Seventh-day Adventist Church is
concerned." (Neal C. Wilson, past president of the Seventh-day
Adventist General Conference, Court Transcript of United States vs
the Seventh-day Adventist Church, Equal Employment Opportunity
Commission vs the Pacific Press Publishing Association and the
General Conference, Reply Brief for Defendants, p 4, Civil Case #742025 CBR, presided over by Judge Charles B. Renfrew, U.S. District
Court, San Francisco, California, 1974-1975.)
Beach
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The Orthodox churches of the world will send 11 patriarchs to Assisi, led by the
Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople. But no representative of
the Moscow patriarchate is expected. About 50 Islamic leaders will attend, coming
from Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Egypt, Iran, the Philippines, and Jordan. And
Jewish rabbis will come from Jerusalem, France, and the United States-- along with
Elio Toaff, the former chief rabbi of Rome. Protestant bodies will be represented by
Konrad Kaiser, the secretary-general of the World council of Churches; Anglican
Bishop Richard Garrard of Rome; Setri Nyomi of the World Alliance of Reformed
Churches; George Freeman of the World Methodist Council; Cecil Robeck of the
Pentecostal church; Alvin Jackson of the Disciples of Christ; Theodor Angelou of
the European Baptist Federation; and Bert Beach of the Seventh-Day Adventists.
The following news report names Dr. Bert Beach a SDA representative to
the Catholic Conference January 17, 2002, at the invitation of the
Vatican.
Dr. Beach also visited Rome May 18, 1977 when he gave a gold metal to
the Pope on behalf of the SDA Church. See the newspaper article and
picture of the metal below.
Lima, Peru January, 1982
• In January of 1982, a theological representative of the Seventh-day
Adventist Church signed what today has become know as the BEM
document, sometimes also referred to as the Lima Text, with which
readers will probably be unfamiliar. BEM stands for Baptism,
Eucharist, and Ministry. This document of the World Council of
Churches is the centerpiece of their determination to bring in a oneworld religion around the planet.
• The synopsis of the purposes of the document are these:
• 1. Baptism: To encourage all churches to make no issue of the mode
of or the age at baptism. If adult consent and decision baptism is
practiced by immersion, that is acceptable, as equally is infant
sprinkling.
• No authentic Seventh-day Adventist could accept such a proposition.
In past ages myriads of God’s faithful people died because they
believed in adult believers’ baptism by complete immersion, and
because they held infant baptism to be wholly unscriptural.
The Eucharist
• 2. Eucharist: To encourage all to accept equally the various concepts,
whether they be trans-substantiation, con-substantiation, or the fact that
the bread and wine are symbols of the broken body and spilled blood of
Jesus Christ.
• (The term Eucharist is certainly not a Protestant term, yet at least in one
church in Auckland, New Zealand, and one church in Sydney, Australia, the
communion has been referred to in their church bulletin as the Eucharist.
This Catholicizing of the Adventist Church is not by accident. It is a
deliberate effort to bring us under the banner of the Papacy controlled by
Satan. When we recognize the absolutely blasphemous claims of the Roman
Catholic Church, which claims that the priest is the creator of his Creator,
that in the wafer he creates Christ in reality; when one considers the claims
that the priest can move Christ here and there, backward and forward, once
again no earnest Seventh-day Adventist could ever accept such an
abominable compromise. Also myriads of God’s people in the past lost their
lives because they refused to accept such blasphemous claims of the
Papacy.)
Continue
• 3. Ministry: To encourage all churches to work for the unchurched, but
never to proselytize from other churches.
• (The acceptance of this agreement would lead to a total capitulation from
the final message which we are commissioned by our God to give to the
world—the loud cry of Revelation 18:4, “Come out of her, my people, that
ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”
They are to be called out because of God’s great love for them. They must
be called out so that they will not continue in the sins of Babylon, and so
that they will be protected from the plagues that will come after the close
of probation.
Yet today we are hearing voices in the Adventist Church, ministers calling for
the same ministry as these ecumenical forces in our world. “Let us work for
the unchurched.”)
• While we cannot, of course, ignore the unchurched—we must work for
them—such statements deny the critical call to work for those who have
been trapped in the churches of Catholicism and fallen Protestantism. The
back of the BEM document reveals a most startling statement:
Continue
• “The statement published here marks a major advance in the
ecumenical journey. The result of a fifty-year process of study and
consultation, this text on Baptism, Eucharist, and Ministry
represents a theological convergence that has been achieved
thorough decades of dialogue, under the guidance of the Holy
Spirit.
“Over 100 theologians met in Lima, Peru in January 1982, and
recommended unanimously to transmit this agreed statement—
the Lima Text—for the common study and official response of the
churches. They represented virtually all the major church
traditions: Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Roman Catholic,
Old Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Reformed, Methodist, United,
Disciples, Baptists, Adventists, and Pentecostal.
“The churches’ response to this agreed statement will be a vital
step of the ecumenical process of “reception.” (Lima Test,
emphasis ours).
• Dr. Raoul Dederen, professor at the Seminary at Andrews
University, was the Seventh-day Adventist representative at this
meeting.
Adams
• May 2, 1991: No wonder in this issue of the Adventist
Review, Roy Adams could declare:
“And we could go on if space permitted – to mention the
WCC’s… accentuation of the Holy Spirit and the Eucharist.
All of these emphases fit into the ambit of the three
angels’ messages.”
• (The Third Angel’s Message warns that if anyone worships
the beast, he will receive the wrath of God poured out
without mixture in the seven last plagues. What is the
center piece of Catholic worship?–it is the Eucharist. The
Eucharist doctrine declares that Christ’s actual body and
blood are in the round wafer and fermented wine. Roy
Adams must have been drunk on Babylonian wine to make
the statement he did.)
Vandemann
• George Vandeman “These were dark ages for the
church. How could Christians be so intolerant of their
brothers and sisters in Christ? Jesus had predicted that
those who killed His followers would sincerely think
they were serving God…It is not for us to question our
medieval ancestors…Nor must we overlook the good
done by the church. Throughout the world,
monasteries provided care for orphans, widows, and
the sick. And all of us owe appreciation to the church
of the Middle Ages for preserving the Scriptures.”
Vandeman, The Rise and Fall of Christ, pages 54,55
Widmer
• Associate Editor of the Review, Myron Widmer “I was
surprised and delighted to learn that the Bible is the
sole textbook during the pope’s visit and the World
Youth Day activities. What a wonderful opportunity fro
so many young people to hear the gospel message
straight from God’s Word…Or might a better
understanding be that God is working through this
pope to open doors for Catholics to the great truths of
Scripture concerning salvation by faith in Christ?”…I
can only wonder if in these last days He is using some
very unexpected sources to encourage many
individuals (especially Catholics) in search for truth.”
Review and Herald, September 9,23,and 30, 1993
Johnson
• William Johnson-Editor-Adventist Review1994,1995 ‘Saints Victory in the End-time’ “To
interpret the sea monster of Revelation 13 as
the papacy seems somewhat out of keeping
with the spirit of the times. In an age when
Christianity in general faces the onslaughts of
secularism and when among Christians
ecumenism has become popular, the
interpretation smacks of narrowness and
bigotry.” Shocking………………………………………
Bacchiochi
• “In the light of this symbolic interpretation of the three and
half year as the time of the domination and persecution of
the Antichrist during which God's people will be protected,
this identifying mark of the Little Horn applies equally well
to the Papacy and Islam. Both powers have attempted to
wear out the saints of the Most High, but during the times
of persecution many believers have been empowered and
protected by God.
• The preceding analysis of the identifying marks of the
prophetic Antichrist, represented in Daniel 7 by the
imagery of the Little Horn and in Revelation 13 by the
symbol of a Beast, has shown that both the Papacy and
Islam fulfill the qualifying marks of this prophetic power.”
End time Issues, #86 Disgusting!
Andrews Professor
• Ranko Stefanovic, professor, Andrews
University, writes a book entitled ‘Revelation
of Jesus Christ’. It is over 600 pages. It is
endorsed by Andrews and Notre Dame
Universities. When commenting on the beast
who comes up from the sea, he gets tongue
tied, never once mentioning the papacy.
Shocking!