Cisco Vs. Microsoft - Strategic Decisions
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Transcript Cisco Vs. Microsoft - Strategic Decisions
Cisco Vs. Microsoft
Strategic Decisions
Brent Kelly, Principal Analyst
KelCor, Inc.
[email protected]
435-563-2532
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
1
Agenda
1
Introduction‐Product Comparison
2
Licensing and TCO
3
Roadmap/Future Considerations
4
Decision Making Aids
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
2
About The Presenter…
Dr. E. Brent
Kelly
Dr. Brent Kelly is Principal Analyst at KelCor, Inc. where he focuses on the intersection
of unified communications, social media, video, cloud services and mobility. Dr. Kelly
provides strategy and counsel to Chief Information Officers, Chief Technology Officers,
investment analysts, VCs, technology policy executives, sell side firms and technology
buyers.
Previously, Dr. Kelly served for two years as Vice President and Principal Analyst at
Constellation Research, Inc., and for ten years as a partner at Wainhouse Research
where he was the primary author of most of the firm’s unified communications reports
and forecasts.
Brent has a Ph.D. in engineering and serves as an elected official in his community.
3
The Market Reality
Cisco Data Network
75%
Microsoft Lync
IM/Presence
60%
Cisco Voice Network
25% - 35%
Sources: Nemertes, Infonetics,
MZA, PKE Estimates
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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The Challenge
Cisco
~21%
have both
Cisco voice
and
Microsoft
Lync
Microsoft
Sources: Nemertes, Infonetics,
MZA, PKE Estimates
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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The Challenge
Cisco
~45%
of Cisco data
Deployments
could be
considering
Microsoft Lync
for voice
Microsoft
This is why the Cisco vs Microsoft debate has become so important!
Sources: Nemertes, Infonetics,
MZA, PKE Estimates
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Cisco vs Microsoft:
The Collaboration Challenge
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End User Organizations Switching Toward a
Particular Communications Provider
Avaya, 12.9%
Cisco, 22.6%
Unsure/Evaluating,
32.3%
Microsoft, 12.9%
Mitel, 3.2%
Unity (Siemens), 3.2%
Other/Multiple, 6.5%
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
Cloud/Hosted, 3.2%
ShoreTel, 3.2%
Source: Nemertes
Research at Enterprise
Connect 2014
8
Why Choosing is Difficult
• In many organizations both vendors are strategic
– Cisco Jabber for all (requires only one telephony license)
– Microsoft Lync for all (often comes bundled in an Enterprise
Agreement)
• Political
– Intelligent, articulate proponents for both solutions
– Sometimes difficult to differentiate between them
– Someone will likely feel disenfranchised
• Approaches differ
–
–
–
–
Cisco: from the data and PBX world
Microsoft: from the enterprise software and collaboration world
Both offer a “vision” for the future
Both approaches are valid and often resonate
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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The Interface is Changing
From
Touch-Tone Dial
Single Channel
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The Interface is Changing
To
Click-to-Call
Click-to-Conference
Multi-Modal
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Pre-Convergence
Personal
Productivity
Applications
Voice Apps
TDM
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Business
Applications
and Processes
Data
Infrastructure
12
Architectural Choice – Cisco
Same vendor for voice and data
Personal
Productivity
Applications
Voice Apps
Communications
Platform
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
Business
Applications
and Processes
Data
Infrastructure
13
Architectural Choice – Microsoft
Microsoft for Productivity and Coms; Any Data Vendor
Personal
Productivity
Applications
Business
Applications
and Processes
Voice Apps
Communications
Platform
Data
Infrastructure
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Architectures are Different
Business
Applications
and Processes
Personal
Productivity
Applications
Personal
Productivity
Applications
Business
Applications
and Processes
Voice Apps
Data
Infrastructure
Voice Apps
Communications
Platform
Communications
Platform
Data
Infrastructure
What do you converge: Comms and network or
Comms and Personal Productivity Apps?
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Short Diversion for a Personal Opinion
Many innovations in the communication space over the next
10 years will integrate personal productivity, mobility, and
multi-modal engagement with business applications.
Personal
Productivity
Applications
Business
Applications
and Processes
Best in Show
Example
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Comparing Portfolio Capabilities
Basic Telephony Services
Desktop Phones
PC Clients
Mobile Clients
Audio Conferencing
Contact Center
IM/Presence
Web Conferencing
Federation Services
Outlook Integration
Peer-to-Peer Video
Multipoint Video
Room System Integration
With Partner Eco-System
Source: PKE Consulting
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A Closer Look: Giving the Nod
Microsoft Lync Cisco UC/Jabber
•
Telephony Capabilities
– Basic Features
– Advanced Telephony Features
• Audio/Web Conferencing
•
•
•
Video Portfolio
Single Vendor versus Eco-System
Desktop Applications Integration
– Exchange/Outlook
– Office Apps
– SharePoint
•
•
•
Federation
Line of Business App Integration
Contact Center
Source: Adapted from
PKE Consulting
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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The Partner Ecosystem –
Disadvantage or Advantage?
Item
UC Software
Microsoft
Cisco
Servers
Partner
Cisco
SBCs
Partner
Cisco
Phones
Partner
Cisco
Video Units
Partner
Cisco
Contact Center
Partner
Cisco
Cloud
Microsoft*
Partner
Installation
Partner
Partner
Operations
Other
Other
Note: Even if Microsoft is chosen, it may be through a VAR;
thus you may still have a single vendor doing the integration.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Where Does the Money Go?
Contact Center and Video Were Added in this On-Premises Example
Microsoft
Cisco
To Vendor*
8.4%
39.9%
To Partners Only
17.8%
4.4%
To Others
73.8%
55.8%
Big opportunity for hosted/managed services
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Four Strategic Options
All Cisco
Both Elemental
•
•
•
•
•
•
One Vendor
Full PBX
Guaranteed
Integration
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
•
Both in Parallel All Microsoft
•
Cisco for PBX
Microsoft for IM
•
& presence
Little integration
•
Location or
departmental
Support full UC •
stack for both
Single Vendor
(sort of)
Eliminate PBX (if
possible)
21
If Lync Gets in the Door… It is
kind of insidious!
Lync for IM and Presence
Lync Peer to Peer Audio and Video
Web/Audio Conferencing through
Lync
Add an SBC and Voice Trunks
Lync Mobile Clients
Lync Federation
Lync Enterprise Voice
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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The Licensing Conversation
Cisco
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Microsoft Lync 2013
Different License Types
• Lync Server Licenses
– Front End Server role
– Plus each Survivable Branch Appliance
• Client Access Licenses (CALs)
• User Subscription Licenses (USLs)
Lync
Licenses
– Office 365 and Lync Online
•
•
•
•
Client License
Windows Server Licenses
SQL Server Licenses
Exchange Server Licenses
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
Don’t Forget
These Other
Licenses
24
Lync CALs
Adds
Conferencing
Enterprise CAL
Adds
Enterprise Voice
Plus CAL
Adds
Conferencing and
Enterprise Voice
Plus CAL
Enterprise CAL
Standard CAL (IM/Presence)
• The Lync 2013 Client license is often included with
other products (Office Professional Plus, Office 365).
• Lync Mobile clients are free
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Lync CALs (Per User)
Plus CAL - $123
Enterprise CAL - $123
Standard CAL - $36
List Price for Full Stack = $282
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Lync Server CALs
•
•
•
•
40+ Pages of Licensing Guide
Core CAL Suite (CCAL)
Enterprise CAL (ECAL)
Enterprise Agreement Subscription (EAS)
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Cisco Licensing
Cisco
+
+
+
+
Personal Multiparty
+
+
+
+
WebEx
Conferencing
+
+
+
Unity Connection
N/A
N/A
Expressway
N/A
N/A
Jabber UC
CPE &
Hosted
Jabber IM/P
Prime Collaboration
One
One
One/Two
Multiple
Multiple
UCL
Essential
(Analog)
UCL
Basic
UCL
Enhanced/
Enhanced
Plus
CUWL
Standard
CUWL
Professional
$40
$125
$210/
$295
$325
$500
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
CPE &
Hosted
# of Devices
Supported
List Price
28
Cisco CUWL Pro (Per User)
Cisco
List Price for Full Stack = $500
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Cisco Enterprise Agreement
Cisco
• Software and service rights for entire organization in
a single multi-year agreement
• Requires at least 2,000 knowledge workers
• Includes software, upgrade subscriptions (UCSS)
and technical support (ESW)
• Considers previous investments in Cisco
collaboration and support products
• Fixed cost for length of contract
• Unlimited organic growth and up to 20% of
inorganic growth before true-up
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Cisco Enterprise Agreement
Offers
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
Cisco
31
Unified or Universal Communications?
Vendor licensing forces us to think in terms of point solutions
Video:
Lync Enterprise
UCL Enhanced
Voice:
CUWL Standard
UCL Basic/Enhanced
Lync Plus
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
Conferencing:
CUWL Pro
Lync Enterprise
32
Modeling TCO
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A User Profile Should Drive Any Solution
Workload/Capability
Percent by Category
IM/Presence
Federation
Deskphone
Softphone
Executive Video Unit
Mobile Smartphone Client
Mobile Tablet Client
Conferencing Hosts
Phone Type
Busy Hour Conferencing
Profile Type: Manufacturing
Executive
Highly Mobile
3%
20%
100%
100%
100%
100%
100%
15%
100%
100%
50%
0%
100%
100%
100%
100%
50%
100%
Multi‐Line,
Multi‐Line,
Speaker, Touch
Speaker
50%
20%
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
Collaborative Worker
30%
100%
100%
50%
100%
0%
100%
100%
100%
Multi‐Line,
Speaker
20%
Support Worker
17%
100%
100%
70%
50%
0%
50%
50%
10%
2‐Line
or Multi‐Line
2%
Task Worker
30%
100%
0%
15%
30%
0%
30%
30%
10%
Single‐Line
1%
34
A Look at the Licenses Required – 5000 Users
Executive
Lync Standard CAL
Lync Enterprise CAL
Lync Plus CAL
UCL‐Essential
UCL‐Basic
UCL‐Enhanced
CUWL‐Standard
CUWL‐Professional
150
75
150
Highly
Mobile
1000
1000
1000
1500
1500
1500
Support
Worker
850
85
850
Public
Task Attendant Space
Worker Consoles Phones
1500
150
675
25
25
25
Analog
Lines
200
200
200
200
Video
Rooms
13
13
200
200
0
75
75
0
0
1000
User Licenses and CALs
Microsoft
Lync Standard CAL
Lync Enterprise CAL
Lync Plus CAL
Cisco
UCL‐Essential
UCL‐Basic
UCL‐Enhanced
CUWL‐Standard
CUWL‐Professional
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
Collab.
Worker
0
0
1500
344
421
85
995
355
150
13
25
Total
5438
2848
4600
200
200
1352
851
2835
Note that there
are more than
5000 licenses
required
35
TCO
Components
One time costs
Total server software
Total software CALs/Licenses
CALs
Total hardware
Total contact center
Total videoconferencing hardware
Total implementation costs
Grand total one time costs
5-year total of annual support costs
Server software maintenance / support
Total CAL
CAL/License
maintenance
maintenance
/ support
/ support
Total hardware support
Total videoconferencing maintenance / support
Total contact center annual support
Grand total support costs
Subtotal before support
operating
costs
costs
Operating costs
Total rack space costs
Total personnel costs
Total power costs
Total annual bandwidth cost
Essential for
Comparison of
Premises vs.
Hosted!
Total SIP trunking cost
Total operating costs
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Case: 5,000 users. No Group Video. No Contact Center. EA Licensing
Where The Money Goes
One Time Costs
Total Server Software
Total Software CALs
Total Hardware
Total Contact Center
Total Video Conferencing Hardware
Total Implementation Costs
Grand Total One Time Costs
5‐Year Support and Maintenance Costs
Annual Server Software Maintenance
Total Annual Software CALs Maintenance
Annual Server Software Support
Total Annual Software CALs Support
Total Hardware Support
Total VideoConferencing Support/Maintenance
Total Contact Center Annual Support
Grand Total Support and Maintenance Costs
Operating Costs
Total Rack Space Costs
Total Personnel Costs
Total Power Costs
Total Annual Bandwidth Cost
Total SIP Trunking Cost
Grand Total Operating Costs
Grand Total
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
Microsoft
Percent
$ 109,595
0.9%
$ 1,558,526
12.9%
$ 511,579
4.2%
$
‐
0.0%
$
‐
0.0%
$ 326,955
2.7%
$ 2,506,654
20.8%
$
‐
$
‐
$ 147,648
$ 2,099,680
$ 109,957
$
‐
$
‐
$ 2,357,286
0.0%
0.0%
1.2%
17.4%
0.9%
0.0%
0.0%
19.5%
$
28,125
$ 6,600,000
$
21,771
$ 164,707
$ 388,125
$ 7,202,728
$ 12,066,668
0.2%
54.7%
0.2%
1.4%
3.2%
59.7%
100%
One Time Costs
Total Server Software
Total CUCM Software Licenses
Total CUBE SBC Licenses
Total Unity Connections Licenses
Total Hardware
Total Contact Center Express
Total Video Conferencing Hardware
Total Implementation Costs
Total One Time Costs
Support and Maintenance Costs
Annual Server Software Maintenance
Total CUCM Software License Maintenance
Total CUCM Software License Support
Total Hardware Support
Total Contact Center Annual Support
Total Unity Connections Support and Maintenance
Total VideoConferencing Support/Maintenance
Total Support and Maintenance Costs
Operating Costs
Total Rack Spack
Total Personnel Costs
Total Power
Total Annual Bandwidth Cost
Total SIP Trunking Cost
Total Operating Costs
Total
Cisco
Percent
$
‐
0.0%
$ 895,822
8.0%
$
20,687
0.2%
$
44,348
0.4%
$ 888,362
8.0%
$
‐
0.0%
$
‐
0.0%
$ 369,844
3.3%
$ 2,219,061
19.9%
$
‐
$ 665,289
$ 520,033
$
25,098
$
‐
$
88,248
$
‐
$ 1,298,667
0.0%
6.0%
4.7%
0.2%
0.0%
0.8%
0.0%
11.7%
$
30,000
$ 6,912,500
$
37,630
$ 190,045
$ 458,831
$ 7,629,007
$ 11,146,735
0.3%
62.0%
0.3%
1.7%
4.1%
68.4%
37
100.0%
License Type Matters
Case: Contact Center: No; Room Video: No; On-Premises
Microsoft EA/SA vs EAS Licensing
EAS = Enterprise Agreement Subscription
• Monthly or annual cost
• You don’t own the software license
Microsoft Enterprise Agreement with Maintenance
(EA/SA Licensing)
Microsoft total:
$12,066,668
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
Microsoft Enterprise Agreement Subscription
(EAS Licensing)
EAS gives
23%
Discount
Microsoft total:
$9,272,159
38
What About Conferencing Only?
Cloud solutions are universally less expensive for
conferencing only workloads
Microsoft
On-Prem
Cisco
On-Prem
Microsoft
O365
WebEx
Cloud
Note: box heights do not represent cost comparison between
the vendors; only comparison between same vendor solutions.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
39
Roadmap and Futures
1
What current Cisco UC users can expect
2
What current Microsoft UC users can expect
3
Suggestions for those who are undecided
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Both Cisco and Microsoft Seek
Differentiated Value Over Time
)
conferencing
center
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
conferencing
conferencing
services
effects
41
Cisco
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Cisco: The Formal Position – 1
Continued emphasis
on video. New MX
and SX series. First
to market with H.265
video!
• Making video easy
– Back to the future: video should be
as easy as a phone call
– Mobile device proximity coupled
with mobile app to launch video
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Cisco: The Formal Position – 2
• Turnkey small and mid
market call control
• Supports video
• Some apps
included (VM/IM/P)
• 25 CWUL Pro
licenses comp’ed
• Making voice easy
– Quicker rollout
– All virtual images included
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Cisco: The Formal Position – 3
• Making cloud (a la
HCS) more compelling
• Multitenant voice
messaging
• Multitenant contact
center
• Service providers
can target SMB
market (50 – 100
• Most V10 functionality will be
users)
available to service providers
• VPN not required
at the end of Q1 2014
for remote workers
– Provider must then roll it out
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Cisco: My Take – 1
From a
September
2006 Cisco
briefing
Companies and markets evolve, and Cisco is
striving to meet demand for video at all levels
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Cisco: My Take – 2
No Surprises
Cisco HCS (cloud) results have been mixed
• Roughly 800,000 seats in use and 1.3 million sold to service
providers (over capacity of 65%)
HCS has been expensive in our RFPs
• Both in 2012 and 2013
Move to lower operator costs is good if it
translates to lower end user costs
• Lower hardware costs (some multitenancy)
• Simplifying on-boarding and continued operations
• Could make HCS more competitive with other offerings in the
SMB market
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Microsoft
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Microsoft: The Formal Position – 1
Windows
Phone
Android
Tablet
Apple Apple Windows
iPad iPhone 8.1 PC
All devices
are running
Lync
Similar Lync or Skype Experience across devices
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Microsoft: The Formal Position – 2
1
Video bridge w/legacy systems
2
Lync Room Systems
3
Video between Lync & Skype
Crestron
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
SIP
H.264
Smart
50
Microsoft: The Formal Position – 3
1
PSTN calling from Lync Online
2
Larger Lync Online Meetings
3
JLync – Java wrapper for Lync API
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Microsoft: The Formal Position - 4
Others have tried to provide
context… and failed
Why Microsoft might succeed..
My guess is that context aware
search will be built into the
search mechanism that comes
as part of the operating system
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Microsoft: My Take – 1
Microsoft is gaining some momentum in voice
• Reminds me of where Cisco was 10 years ago
Adding voice to Office 365/Lync Online is great
for the SMB market
• Had a false start a few years ago, but it would be
welcome to the O365 user
Integrating legacy video investments is a good
move for Microsoft
• The could have been done by partners (i.e. Polycom), but
it is not hard for Lync Server to be the video bridge either
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Microsoft: My Take - 2
The Lync-Skype Video Integration
• This is a good move
• I hate the fact that you must get a new Microsoft user identity
(kind of kills the “universal communications” paradigm
B2C w/Skype (businesses pay the PSTN toll)
• May help enable more immediate rich interaction for SMBs
Too much focus on consumer solutions may dilute
momentum
• I really want to see my mom and kiddos on video all the time;
I really *don’t* want to see my business associates on video
all the time
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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For the Undecided…
Some Strategic Approaches
Do you ever feel like both solutions are
good but missing just a little something?
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Elimination Strategies
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No Matter Which Solution You are
Looking At…
Profile your users
Workload/Capability
Percent by Category
IM/Presence
Federation
Deskphone
Softphone
Executive Video Unit
Mobile Smartphone Client
Mobile Tablet Client
Conferencing Hosts
Phone Type
Busy Hour Conferencing
Profile Type: Manufacturing
Executive
Highly Mobile
3%
20%
100%
100%
100%
100%
100%
15%
100%
100%
50%
0%
100%
100%
100%
100%
50%
100%
Multi‐Line,
Multi‐Line,
Speaker, Touch
Speaker
50%
20%
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
Collaborative Worker
30%
100%
100%
50%
100%
0%
100%
100%
100%
Multi‐Line,
Speaker
20%
Support Worker
17%
100%
100%
70%
50%
0%
50%
50%
10%
2‐Line
or Multi‐Line
2%
Task Worker
30%
100%
0%
15%
30%
0%
30%
30%
10%
Single‐Line
1%
57
No Matter Which Solution You are
Looking At…
Look for unique
requirements or situations
Special group functions?
Advanced Trunking or dial plan functions?
Unique assistant functions?
These may point you toward the vendor
you need to pursue.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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No Matter Which Solution You are
Looking At…
Determine if you have
“The 70% Solution”
Your organization may “require” multiple
communications vendors to meet its
needs!
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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No Matter Which Solution You are
Looking At…
Consider your expertise
Are you more of a Cisco shop that a
Microsoft shop or vice versa?
Don’t forget that OPERATIONS will likely be
half of your TCO over time. If you have
significant expertise with one or the other
vendor, you may save time and money
pursuing that vendor.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Investigate TCO By Looking at
Alternatives
TCO is only part of the
picture, but it is important
Do some modeling or get
someone else to do it
A close look at
TCO may
move a
director or
manager
toward
compromise.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Evaluate Vendors Using a Weighting Process
Define
Criteria
Weigh
Criteria
Compare
Vendors
Crunch
Data
Outcome
25%
5%
14%
10%
4%
Jabber ‐ Lync Comparison by Non‐Outlook/Exchange or
Outlook/Exchange and Worker Type ‐ Zoom View
e57
g
ra 56
e
v 55
A
yt 54
ili
ab53
ap52
C
ve
it 51
la 50
e
R
49
Jabber
Lync
Non‐Exchange Non‐Exchange
‐ K nowledge ‐ Information
Worker
Worker
Customers and Public
Close Held Partners
25%
Inter‐Business
Exchange ‐
Knowledge
Worker
Email (Including Desktop Client)
100
TCO
Active Directory
90
80
SharePoint
70
60
50
Business Applications
40
30
20
10
Desktop Productivity Apps
0
Windows 8 Smart Phones
Video Conferencing
Open Smart Phones
Telephony
Window s 8 Tablets/Slates
6%
Exchange ‐
Information
Worker
PC Desktops
Open Tablets
Jabber
Lync
11%
Source: PKE Consulting
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Building Block Approach
User Profiles are an input to TCO modeling.
TCO modeling is an input to a weighted
decision analysis tool.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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A Quantitative Example
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Model Output
Scenario 1
Scenario 2
TCO
Email (Including Desktop Client)
100
Active Directory
90
80
Customers and Public
SharePoint
70
60
50
Close Held Partners
Business Applications
40
30
20
10
Inter‐Business
Desktop Productivity Apps
0
Windows 8 Smart Phones
Video Conferencing
Other Smart Phones
Telephony
Windows 8 Tablets/Slates
PC Desktops
Other Tablets
Knowledge Worker ‐ Jabber
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
Knowledge Worker ‐Lync
Information Worker ‐ Jabber
Information Worker ‐Lync
65
To get a *free* copy of the weighted decision
analysis model, send an email to Phil Edholm at
[email protected]
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Coexistence Strategies
1
Deploy equally and maintain both
You will do this “intentionally”, knowing that this is
likely the most expensive option. Management
does this knowing that the benefits outweigh the
costs!
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Coexistence Strategies
1
Deploy equally and maintain both
Inbound call
Session Border Controller
with Active Directory Lookup
You could also do SIP trunking between them
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Coexistence Strategies
2
“Mostly eliminate one”
For your “core” UC capabilities across broad job
profiles, standardize on a single communications
and collaboration solution. Only those with
“special requirements” have the other system.”
This will lower some costs; costs for the special
requirements solution will likely be quite high.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Coexistence Strategies
3
Run one in‐house & one hosted
Own the “main” UC solution and operate it
yourself. For the special requirements
solution move it to a hosted solution from a
reputable service provider.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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Coexistence Strategies
Run one in‐house & one hosted
Enterprise Voice
3
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
~70 providers
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Sometimes choosing between Cisco and
Microsoft is like herding cats…
But it can be done!
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
Video Source: HP/EDS 2009
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P
k7yqlTMvp8
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Thank you
Brent Kelly
+1.435.563.2532
[email protected]
Twitter: @ebkell
http://uccinsider.blogspot.com
www.KelCor.com
© KelCor, Inc. 2014
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