Transcript Chapter 3

Chapter 3
Common Schools, Teacher
Training, and the Bible
1830-1860
February 19, 2004
KJ Lowry
Tamara Carter
Not entirely our original thoughts, but a good
summary of the topics in Ch. 3:
While not denying the tremendous number of innovations,
particularly technical, that multiply around us, the present writer
would suggest that our current times are rivaled in the rate of
change by the nineteenth century, at least in education.
In Europe, and countries with similar traditions such as in North
America, literacy of the few was replaced by almost universal
elementary education, and the methods which had changed little
since formal education was first established, were replaced by
techniques much more similar to those still in practice today.
Questions for Us
Jennie Stuhrenberg
What are some examples of how the media has influenced what
and how subjects are taught in American public schools in recent
decades?
KJ - I haven’t found anything about the media
influencing what and how subjects are taught, but I
did find a very interesting article by David C. Berliner
(a renowned education researcher at Arizona State
University) about the influence of the media on
education systems and the students in those
systems.
http://courses.ed.asu.edu/berliner/readings/alliancew.htm
Mandy Biggers –
Much of this chapter discusses the differences between wealth
and poverty. Can you put this in perspective for my by finding
out what a "decent" salary of this day and age might have been?
What was the cost of certain necessities? (Bread, milk, etc.)
KJ - I did find out that 5 cents would buy then what a dollar buys
now!
Carpenters in Illinois in 1850 were paid between $1 and $2 per day.
But the average annual salary for all workers was only $250 in 1850.
The Reverend Timothy Dwight Hunt was very conscious of the high cost of
living in San Francisco. On February 19, 1849 he put an exclamation point after an
item of $45.00 for filling three teeth, at an ounce of gold dust per filling. On
October 6 he paid his servant a month's wages of $15.00, which made him
unhappy, too. Laundry was even more of a problem then than now; an entry on
November 15, 1849 reads "2 weeks washing _without ironing_ 12.00." The
underlining is his. He had a bad day on November 18, with "4 lbs of potatoes
1.50!" but worse was to come.
During the rest of the year were expenses such as these:
"1 squash 1.50! 1 Beef’s liver 1.50! 1 lb of sausage 1.00 & 2 lbs
steak .37; 1/2 cord of wood 20.00! Beef (roast & steak) 2.18; 2
sweet potatoes (4lbs) 2.00! 1 beet (2 1/2 lbs) 2.50!!
1 lb of sausages 1.00! 1 squash 1.63!" and on
January 26, 1850 he had to pay one dollar for 4 lbs of beef. For a
man who complained on November 7, 1848 at having to pay fifty
cents for "cutting hair," this was bad.
Corrine Wickens – Common School Supporters and reasons
Could you clarify the different groups of supporters for the common
school movement and their contradictory reasons for doing so?
The way I read it was:
There were three major groups that saw it as in everyone’s best
interest to educate the entire American public.
1. Factory Owners – because they wanted diligent and productive
workers
2. Working People – because they wanted to improve the lives of
all the workers, expand the capabilities of the individuals, and to
safeguard liberty for the common folk.
3. Politicians and Power Brokers – had a deep fear of “ignorant
mob rule” and Jacksonian/Crockett Democrats. They hoped
education would create an intellectual populace and produce
leaders more like themselves.
Tamara Carter
I thought that Protestants and Catholics both used the same Bible
(with except that the Catholics use a few additional books) and
believed many of the same things. Can you find out some of the
differences between Protestants and Catholics that would make the
Catholics believe that they needed different schools during a time
when the Bible was used in public schools?
Protestants consult the Word of God directly while Catholics consult
the leaders of the church. Protestants pray directly to God while
Catholics pray through saints and the Virgin Mary. Catholics Bibles
have 7 books and some verses that the Protest Bibles started leaving
out in 1885.
From Catholic Encyclopedia
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12495a.htm
Rui Kang
1. What are some of the distinct aspects of the King James’ version of
Bible especially those related to character education? What were the
other alternative versions during the period of 1830-1860? Which
version was the most popular? Why? (p. 70-72)
2. How does the curriculum/textbook censorship process work in the
United States today and in the history?
Character education is one of the main themes of the Bible (in all
versions). Major examples are the Beatitudes, the Ten
Commandments, and the Parables that Jesus told.
The Geneva Bible of 1557 was the only real competition for the
King James Version at this time. KJV was more popular. In 1833,
Webster produced a version, but it didn’t catch on until recently.
http://www.greatsite.com/
Censorship:
http://www.ncpa.org/iss/edu/2003/pd041703b.html
http://www.hnn.us/articles/922.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0506/p17s01-lepr.html
Alicia Kerr
On page 71, Watras discusses the removal of the reading of the Bible
from some towns in Massachusetts because “members of this minority
religion paid taxes to support a school that taught a religious doctrine
they did not believe.” Did this happen in more places than these few
towns or was it a common practice? What evolved of the practice of
removing religion from these schools?
Even though Horace Mann proposed this in his Twelfth Annual
Report, he still suggested a surprising amount of what we would
consider religion.
Mike Hasler – The influence of the common school
movement seemed to be concentrated in the Northeast and the
Cincinnati region. Was there evidence of significant inroads
of the movement in the Deep South?
KJ - Please see the handout for information from the
“Handbook of Texas”! Also available Online at:
http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/AA/
npa1.html
Grace Lin As I know that the University of Cambridge had a history that people in England
believed that college students in Cambridge were all from wealthy families which
could afford the high expenses of education. Early Cambridge students had bad
reputations of leanring bad luxury habbits such as smoking, and were not really serious
on academia tasks because their fantastic futures were already ensured by their
powerful family backgrounds. Till Physicist and mathematicist Isacc Newton offered
his innovative theory, Cambridge was admitted to be a practical knowledgable place.
We know that in 1800s education might be a bed of roses. I think that this thought could
be caused by several minor important majors such as Art and Vet, or the attitudes of
students in college. What other reasons do you think the college education
was not that important in 1800s?
KJ - The really big reason why college educations were not a priority
for the population was that very few occupations required that level of
education.
Junhui Liu –
When reading this, I was a little confused by common school and
public school? KJ- So was I, so I went looking for help…
Are they the same? Was the public school at that time the same as the public school
we have today?
it turns out that they are virtually the same and are primarily differentiated by the time
frame considered. To clarify these issues, I found a good journal article
And could girls go to common school then? Yes
Fuhui Tong
This chapter talks about the population booming from 1830 to 1860. What is the
situation of population in Texas at that time? Who immigrated to Texas as it was
said as an immigration state?
According to the author, the "editors of women's magazines at that time published
stories that explained why women made natural teachers" (p.59). In my country,
female teachers dominate from kindergarten to senior high schools. However, the
case is not the same in higher education. What is the situation in the US and which
gender do you prefer for the profession of teacher?
Tamara - Indian population was native. Spanish then French settled
Texas. In the 1820s and 1830s, most of the immigration was from
Mexico. In 1835-36, we fought the war for independence from
Mexico. From 1836 to 1845, we were the Republic of Texas. In
1845, we became 28th state.
http://www.lsjunction.com/events/events.htm
In 1999-2000, 75% of public school teachers were women while
only 41% of college faculty were women.
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/
Jisook Kim
Among Stowe's explaining(p. 60), he pointed out that "women
should be employed in the elementary schools because this
was the area in which they distinguished themselves".
Actually, majority of teachers in elementary schools are
women, now. In Korea over 90% of elementary school
teachers are women, too. Do you think it is O.K.? What are
the reasons of such phenomena?
Tamara - Too much to print 
Linda Black
Is there any way to locate one of the magazine articles
mentioned on page 59 from women's magazines that
explained why women made "natural teachers", or any of the
articles in women's magazines about the schools of reformers
such as Willard, Beecher, or Mary Lyon? The source
mentioned is a book which is probably no longer available.
Tamara –
The source book was in our library, so I brought it for you to
examine. We have Godey’s and Harper’s in our library from this
time period.
Michael Saberian
Chapter Discussants might explore changes in attitude about
corporal punishment and how such punishments were carried out.
KJ - [See the handout for some first-hand views of schools in the
19th century.]
For an interesting view of corporal punishment from 1891, read:
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/corporal_
punishment.html
In 1971 Canadian researcher Robert McCole Wilson wrote his
Master’s thesis on the history of corporal punishment and it is
available at:
http://www.socsci.kun.nl/ped/whp/histeduc/wilson/
The following is a quote from the afterward that he wrote in 1999 While I don't think that the work in any way influenced the decision, shortly
after, in 1973, corporal punishment was banned in public schools here in British
Columbia. Almost all industrialised countries now ban its use in schools
including the United Kingdom beginning in 1986; exceptions are some states of
the U.S.A. and several Canadian provinces.
Those advocating a complete ban point to its success in some European
countries led by Sweden. But these are countries with relatively homogeneous
cultures with strong traditions. How well the success there can be applied to
such countries as the United States and Canada with diverse cultures of large
immigrant populations and differing religious and ethnic traditions in which it is
accepted is not clear.
Dawoon Yoo –
When I attended middle school in 1990, teachers usually beat
misbehaving students as punishments. But when I went back to the
same school in 1999 as a training teacher, I found teachers didn't beat
students any more. It was rare thing. In the United States, is beating
students as punishments permitted? If not, when was it discontinued?
KJ- In a bit more than one-half of the states in the U.S., the practice of
corporal punishment has been banned at this time. It is still legal in
Texas, but many school districts have banned or drastically curtailed its
use. For the current legal status in individual states you can look here:
http://www.familyeducation.com/article/0,1120,1-3980,00.html
What kinds of punishments are used to manage students in current
classroom?
I found alternatives listed on:
http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/alternatives.php
They are quoted on the next slide…

Restorative Justice Conferences
This is part of a process developed by the Colorado School Mediation Project
which helps students learn to be accountable for their actions. These often
involve conferences of the offender, persons offended, the parents, and
school representatives who have an opportunity to tell the offender how they
were affected and what they need to happen to go on. The object is for the
offender to act to correct the situation: restore relationships, apologize, pay
back, clean up, do community service, etc.

Other alternatives include:
Use of discipline codes which are fair and consistently enforced, emphasizing
positive behaviors of students, use of school psychologists and school
counselors and use of community mental health professionals and agencies.

Punishments include:
In-school and out-of-school suspension programs, expulsion, Saturday
Schools, restitution, detention and parent pick-up programs.
If you are concerned about this issue, the following website has
valuable advice and information.
http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/
Heekyoung Kim
Korea as a country with long tradition of Confucianism has allowed teachers to
give corporal punishment. We believe it comes from the love of teachers toward
students, though it is often at issue on severity today. I found that 22 states in the
U.S. allow some form of corporal punishment while 28 have banned the practice.
Would you support a policy allowing physical punishment in your school?
KJ - No, but…Since Texas is one of those states that allow corporal
punishment to this day…the only choices that parents have are to
protest a local policy if we disagree with it and/or write our state
legislators and lobby for what we believe.
[Tell the story of my daughter’s 6th grade experience – 8 years ago
in a small rural school in Texas]
Why or why not?
I do not believe that hitting children teaches them anything positive. I
also do not believe that the way to solve disputes is through violence
and - I do believe that it is a major irony that we kill people, that kill
people, to show that killing people is wrong. But most Texans would
just call me a bleeding-heart liberal and ignore me anyway.
Tsueifen Chen
I am interested to know more about the women magazine (p.59 & 66)
published at that time. Did it have any impact upon the women and
the society?
Tamara - Yes, they helped educate women, provided virtual
communities and domestic information.
http://is.gseis.ucla.edu/impact/f93/students/tracy/tracy_hist.html
Anissa Myers
I would like more discussion on Horace Mann. Exactly who was he and
where did he come from and how did he gain such authority in education?
I have heard his name in Public school law as well associated with some
beginning decisions that were instituted and in my previous finance class
as well but no one has ever gone into any justification as why he was so
influential and his views were respected.
Samantha McPhail
I would like to know more about Horace Mann's "list of qualities of good
teachers." The chapter only listed one item on the list (page 61, second
paragraph) and I would like to see a more complete list so as to compare
it with what educators today feel are good teaching qualities.
Moira Baldwin
I would like to learn more about the qualities of good teachers that Mann
listed in his second annual report. How do they compare to today’s
standards of good teachers?
Answers to Anissa, Samantha, and Moira
Tamara - Although Mann was poor and had little education as a
child, he eventually graduated from Brown and became a lawyer. In
1837, he became Secretary of Massachusetts State Board of
Education where he worked to get common schools Massachusetts
so that children could attend for free (with books provided); he
worked to get free libraries, improve buildings, and establish
normal schools, increase teacher salaries, raise funds for schools,
worked toward mandatory school attendance and non-secretarian
schools.
http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/agexed/aee501/mann.html (from Michael)
Cindy Warren
What happened to the children who didn't attend school? Not all
of these children ended up in prison. Did they just take up their
parent's profession, such as trapping or farming?
Tamara - You are correct. They would typically work on the farm
or in a factory.
http://www.horacemann.com/html/facts/cmann.html
Homayra Moghadasian –
Page 72 states” Advocates [of common schools] faced opposition
from wealthy individuals who believed they should not have to pay
to support school for other people’s children.” I wanted to know
what the opinions of the discussants are. Do you think wealthy
people should pay for others’ education? As you know there are a
lot of countries that offer free higher education even up to Ph.D.
degree. I have always been wondering why such a rich country like
America does not have free higher education. I have some American
friends who work hard but they still don’t think they can ever afford
to send their children to college. What is your opinion? Don’t you
think your country can afford free higher education?
KJ – I do believe that we should pay for education for all individuals that choose to
be educated not just in the U.S. – but worldwide. Our current system for doing so
in Texas is completely outdated and unfair. We need to have a system of taxation
for education (at ALL levels) that spreads the burden fairly. It is to the benefit of
the whole world to educate all people that desire to be educated…it could end
poverty, racism, hatred and war in the long run – if it is done right!
ALL DISCUSS
EDUCATION
RULES !!