Transcript FORENSIC INTERVIEWING

Forensic Interviewing
of Children
Susan Kreston
Fulbright Professor & Research Fellow
Centre for Psychology and the Law - UFS
076.543.7211 (cell)
[email protected]
FORENSIC INTERVIEW
FORENSIC – Pertaining to, connected with,
or used in courts of law
INTERVIEW – A formal meeting in which a
person or persons question, consult, or
evaluate another individual
FORENSIC INTERVIEW – When information
obtained from the interview is to be
applied or used for questions of law,
especially in court proceedings
Therapeutic vs. Forensic
Therapeutic – The Child
1. Assumes child is telling
the truth
2. Interviewer is an
advocate
3. Subjective reality is
accepted
4. Accepting of general
descriptions of abuse
5. Info can be obtained
using multiple
techniques: ex: “what
ifs,” play-therapy, etc
Forensic – The Case
1. Fact finding
2. Interviewer is neutral
3. Alternatives are
explored
4. Details are imperative
5. Interviewer follows
set guidelines: ex:
RATAC
“Fantastic” Statements
 Bizarre
and Fantastic Elements: A
Forensic Interviewer’s Response
(Parts I, II and III), by Anne Lukas
Miller
 Update 2008 (available on-line)
 Empowerment statements
 Mastery
fantasy
“Fantastic” Statements

Developmental issues


Distortion of reality



Sympathy, approval, attention
Contamination


Drugs & alcohol
Perpetrator intentionally “bizarres up” the
abuse (checking for alien devices example)
Exaggeration


Vocabulary, cognitive skills, life experiences
Multiple victims
Accurate description of reality
RAPPORT BUILDING
 Making
the child comfortable
 Rapport
& explaining “the rules”
Don’t shift to abuse enquiry too quickly
 Interview child alone

 Know
child’s attention span
Generally, 3-5minutes per year old
 Ex: 4 yr old = 12-20 minutes

 The
child is NOT legally trained
This is not Judge Judy or L&O
 The child is NOT going to jail

 Interviewer
introduces self to
child
 Ask
child what name s/he prefers
to be called
 Explanation
 Explanation
of interviewer’s job
of videotaping
process
 Interview observation explained
 The
Rules
The rules that apply here
in this room, today –
The Big 5 of Interviewing

Asking for clarification because s/he did
not understand what was said
 Saying that s/he does not know/remember
the answer (if s/he doesn’t)
 Correcting the other speaker is OK
 Never guessing!!!
 Asking the question twice does NOT mean
the child got it “wrong” the first time

Why this is CRUCIAL!!!!!
Topics for Rapport Building
 Family
constellation, pets,
friends, etc…
 Assess child’s expressive and
receptive language skills
 Trial
 Use
consequences
many open-ended questions
Types of Questions
to Ask Children



Open-ended
 Does not assume an event or experience
 “Tell me about it”
Focused
 Focuses on a particular topic, place, or person, but
refrains from providing information
 “wh”, multiple choice, and yes/no questions
 “Or anything else”
Leading
 Clearly indicates the answer desired
 Always pair a leading question with an open-ended
question
R.A.T.A.C. Protocol Phases

A – Anatomy

What do you call this?



BE AWARE – younger kids can point to a part
of the body, but not necessarily give it a name



From this point forward, we use the child’s word
What if the child doesn’t to name “it”
Possible use of an anatomical diagram
Some body parts come sooner (ex: face, eyes,
mouth, nose, ears)
Others (ex: lips, ankles, elbows, wrists) after 6
R.A.T.A.C. Protocol Phases

T – Touch Inquiry


Has anyone ever touched you in a way you
didn’t like; made you feel bad/sad/mad;
embarrassed?
A – Abuse Inquiry


Tell me about that
BE AWARE – bare bones statement may be all
that’s given spontaneously, since younger kids
think you (interviewer & all adults) know what
happened
R.A.T.A.C. Protocol Phases
A
– Abuse Inquiry
 DO
NOT INTERRUPT A NARRATIVE!
 Go
back to questions later
 Disrupts child’s statement flow
 Hinders the recall process
 Interferes with accuracy
Quick Word on Child Development

Kids cognitively unable to expand their
reasoning to incorporate the more general
meaning of a word.
 Younger children will often interpret a
question or command in the most narrow
and literal sense.


Draw the drapes when the sun comes in
(Amelia Bedelia)
Why lawyers are good with kids

CONCRETE THINKERS
Quick Word on Child Development



“Where do you live?” = “in an apartment”
 Vs listing a specific city/town or street
 this is literally where that child lives
If then asked “When you were at home, did
anything bad happen?
 May respond “no” to the entire question,
because not at “home”
 Cannot expand her understanding to include
“home” as a general term for residence
Every prosecutor’s nightmare
 Do you see the man who hurt you in the
courtroom?
Quick Word on Child Development

Will have great difficulty explaining their own
thinking or feelings




Asking “Why” before 8-10 is usually useless


Ex: Why are you sad?
Ex: Why didn’t you run?
Ex: Why didn’t you tell?
Kids are “pre-logical” till then
Hypotheticals will yield “I don’t know” until @
12 yoa

Words like If & then, would and could
The Truth About Kids & Lies
 Prior
to @ age 7 kids cannot create
elaborate fabrications.
 To do this they would have to be
aware of the listener’s perspective.
 They still cannot understand that the
listener has a different perspective
than they do.
Quick Word on Child Development
 Kids
under 10 are syncretic
 Fuse
separate incidents into one event
 Many incidents may be described as if
they are one
“What happened”
 “All the men worked the back and the
women worked the front”

Quick Word on Child Development
 Kids
under 10 experience centration
 Child
focuses on one aspect of a
situation to the exclusion of all others
 May give amazing detail about
something trivial (ex: what the car
looked like, what was on TV, etc…), but
be unable to describe in detail the
abuse
Quick Word on
Literal Interpretation
 Did
you put your mouth on his
penis?
 NO
 Did
he put his penis in your mouth?
 YES
 IT’S
NOT THE SAME QUESTION!!!
Quick Word on Trauma
 Know
 Type
the Dynamics of Trauma
of abuse;
 ID of abuser (closer=worse);
 Duration (ex: incest in SA usually
occurs for 3 years before disclosure);
 Extent (penetration usually worst);
 Age at which child was abused.
Trauma
 Know
 First
the dynamics of Trauma
reactions of other
UKZN 2007 study
 Family; community; institutions, BAIL!!!

 Secrecy
(makes it worse)
 Personality structure of the particular
child (robustness)

Elsie from Eastern Cape
Choose Your Words
Carefully
Touch
 Touch
is with hands
 Child may deny being touched when
s/he was penetrated
Particular Words
 “Know”
 To
know someone is to be their friend
 Child may deny “knowing” the
perpetrator, even if he’s a friend of the
family
 Mom/Dad “knows” the perp
Clothes

“Clothes”




Clothes are outer
wear vs. panties,
which are
underwear
“He took off my
clothes”
Later “moved my
panties to the side”
NOT
INCONSISTENT

“Clothes”

Did he take off his
clothes?


Did he take off his
pants?




No
Yes
Clothes may be,
literally, all his clothes,
not only article of
clothing
“Underextension” –
give a word only part of
its adult meaning
NOT INCONSISTENT
More Word Choices
 Naked
 Children
may describe someone as
naked if their genitals are exposed,
even if they have all their clothes on
 Sex/rape
 Children
use these words to describe
any sexual interaction, not necessarily
only a penetrative act
 EX: the 4 year old who comes home and
says “I had sex today”
More Word Choices
 Be
naughty/do naughty things
 When
used to refer to abusive acts
(“Did he do naughty things to you?”),
naughty may be interpreted as referring
to the child’s behaviour (from the child’s
perspective)
 Play
with
 When
the child is asked “did he play
with you?,” while adult is referring to
abuse, child is interpreting this literally,
as playing games
And finally…
 The
 In
dread preposition
vs. on vs. against
 In
may mean penetration, or it may
mean between the legs
 Young children may not conceptualize
their inner anatomy

“You know you have holes in your body…”
A Brief Word on Suggestibility
 By
10, no more suggestible than
adults
 You must know the research to
defend against these allegations
 EX:
what was the age of the children in
the study vs. the child in this case?
 And
all studies deal with kids
denying something happened vs.
asserting something happened
LET’S TALK ABOUT SEX
Stimulation & Masturbation
 Kids
may not understand meaning or
significance of what happened, but
may be able to describe it
 direction
 May
 He
hand moved
use other words
bounced his willy
Ejaculation
 Children
may not have knowledge of
what this is
 May use “over-extension”
 Don’t
have the word ejaculate, so use
the word “wee”
 Can they describe its colour or taste?
 Does it matter?
Erection
 One
of the more difficult aspects to
establish in child’s account
 Child may not UNDERSTAND THE
QUESTION
 Hard
vs. soft?
 Straight vs. floppy?
 Long vs. circle?

Perspective is everything
Condoms

May be used with abuse

“Blame” CSI

Kids may not have a word for this or
understand its significance
 So, over-generalize and choose another
item that is similar – EX:




Another penis
Sweet wrapper
Balloons
Plastic bags
R.A.T.A.C. Protocol Phases
A
– Abuse Inquiry
 May
have to prompt (non-leading)
 Tell
me more about that
 What did you do then?
 What happened next
R.A.T.A.C. Protocol Phases
C
– Closure
 Anything
I haven’t asked about that you
want to tell me or think is important
 What would you do if someone tried to
do/did this again
 Do YOU have any questions?
 Try to return to rapport building at this
point
Language
 Exploitation/abuse
has its own
language
 To change the child’s vocabulary
could result in:
the perception that the interviewer is
judging the victim
 the victim may feel that what s/he is saying
is “wrong”

Language

Avoid use of legal terms, e.g. defendant,
accused
 Avoid use of technical terms, e.g.
ejaculation
 Avoid use of multisyllabic/big words, e.g.
preceding, accompany, incident
 Avoid use of words with more than one
meaning e.g. play
 Avoid abstract terms e.g. justice, truth

Particularly with the under 10s
 Do
not assume that because a child
uses a word, she knows what it
means
 “They’re
sexy”
 Do
not assume that both of you
mean the same thing
 “He
tickled me”
 Avoid
the use of relationship words.
Use names (Johan) instead of “your
uncle”, etc.
 What
if child calls someone Uncle, like
the bus driver and doesn’t know a name
 Avoid
pronouns – he, she, they, etc…
 Until
10 kids have difficulty linking
pronouns to reference noun
 Avoid
negative constructions like,
“Mom wasn’t home, was she?”
 Avoid
“some” “all” “more” “less”
with under 7s
 Avoid the use of quantifiers, e.g. “a
couple,” “several,” “few”
 “Once
or more than once”
 “A million times”

Avoid DUR (do you remember) questions



Under 9 “remember” may mean at one time
you’d forgotten
Not “Do you remember telling the police?”
Just ask “Did you tell the police?”

Avoid shifting back and forth between
topics without signaling to the child

Avoid shifting back and forth in time
without signaling to the child


Try to link events to something important to
the child
Prior to 9 usually poor with time concepts
 Avoid
asking for units of
measurements – e.g. size, distance
 Big
vs. small, child uses self as the
measure
 Avoid
asking for estimates of elapsed
time
 Avoid ending with a question – “He
told you not to tell, didn’t he?”
 Avoid negative stereotypes
 Think
age/development when asking
questions
 Ask
one question at a time
 Allow
the child time to formulate an
answer before rephrasing question
 Silence
is not the enemy
Talking to Kids

Age-Inappropriate
Language

Long, Complex
Sentences:

Developmentally
Sensitive Language

Several Short Sentences:
Where
did
your
Mom
take
 When you were with
you that day?
your Uncle in the
bedroom of the blue
 Who was there?
house your Mom took  What room were you in?
you to, what did he do
 What happened?
to you?

Talking To Children
Age-Inappropriate
Language
Developmentally Sensitive
Language
Passive Voice:
Were you touched by him?
Active Voice:
Did Anton touch you?
Did you put your mouth
on his penis?
Did Anton put his
penis in your
mouth?
Confusing Pronouns:
What did he do with them?
Clear Use Of Names:
What did Jaco do
with Marie and
Stephan?
Talking to Kids

Double Negative






If you need a break,
then let me know.
Point to…
Simple Verbs


Did your Mom tell you
not to go there?
Short Words

Might it have been...
Hypothetical
Single Negatives

Identify…
Complex Verbs


Didn’t your Mom tell
you not to go there?
Multi-syllable Word


Was it…
Direct


Are you tired?
Do you need a break?
Example from the Field - 2008
8 SA Transcripts Analyzed
Average of 219 age or
developmentally
inappropriate questions
posed to kids at trial
Age-Appropriate
Interview Questions
 Age
3
Who
 What
 Where (maybe)

 Age
4
Who
 What
 Where
 When (maybe)

 Ages
5-6
Who
 What
 Where
 When
 How (maybe)

 Ages
7-8
Who
 What
 Where
 When
 How
 # of times (maybe)

 Ages
9-10
Who
 What
 Where
 When
 How
 # of times
 Circumstance (maybe)

 Ages
11-12
Who
 What
 Where
 When
 How
 # of times
 Circumstances

Guidelines For Age-Appropriate
Interview Questions
AGE
WHO
WHAT
WHERE WHEN
3
X
X
X
X
X
X
X
X
X
X
X
X
Maybe
4
5-6
7-8
9-10
11-12
X
X
X
X
X
HOW
Circum#of times stance
Maybe
X
X
X
X
Maybe
X
X
X
Maybe
X
X
Maybe
X

When verbal info is limited
 Younger children
 Limit distracting materials
 Short, simple, direct questions

Difficulty providing details –
Communication aids
 Write
 Draw
 Demonstration/Dolls
A Quick Word on
Using Interpreters
INTERPRETERS
 What
language does the child use at
home?
 Qualifications?
 Neutral?
 Ex:
deaf institutions
 Variations
 Ex:
within language?
sign language
 English (American vs. British vs. SA)
INTERPRETERS
 Pre-interview/trial
meeting
 Purpose
and logistics
 Don’t change the questions or the
answers
 Keep it simple
 Interpret everything

How many people live in your house?
 Ask

questions of each other to clarify
Not all interpreters are fluent in the
vocabulary and concepts of child abuse
INTERPRETERS
 Arrange
the physical space
 Interpreter
slightly behind and to
the side of the Interviewer
INTERPRETERS
 Prepare
the child
 EX:
“This is Tumi (interpreter’s name)
and she’s here to help us talk. She speaks
Sotho (child’s language), but I don’t.
 Make sure child understands – ask.
 Speak
to the child, not the interpreter
 Avoid
“tell him,” “ask her,” etc…
Interviewing the Teen
Adolescent Development:
Social/Emotional Factors
 Risk
Taking/Rule Breaking
 Differing View of Social
Relationships
 Both
of CJ community as well as
adults/friends/etc…
 Self-blame
 Valid
Fears about disclosure
Adolescent Maltreatment
 Adolescents
experience
maltreatment at rates equal to or
exceeding those of younger children
 Why
the law exists
 Adolescent
girls are reported as
victims more often than boys
 Why
that may be
Ages 11-18

Concerned with the present
 Might have adult narrative skills
 Slang may have more meaning than
formal language
 Trouble with double negatives
 Lose track of long, complex questions
 Do not like to ask for clarification
 An event can be viewed from many
perspectives
Interviewing Adolescents
 Don’t
assume you know their world
 Don’t
try to be cool
 The
 Ask
tragedy of middle aged hipness
for clarification
 Lead
by example
A Process/Protocol for Teens
Rapport
Introduction
Computer
Touch
to Task
Inquiry
Inquiry
Information Gathering
Closure
Child Sexual Abuse &
Exploitation and the Internet
The need to enquire about
new technologies
Introduction to task
 Begin

 “I
with open-ended question
“Do you know why you’re here today?”
talk to lots of teenagers about
different things. One thing I talk to
them about is computers”
 With older kids, may talk about
“technology”
Computer/Technology Inquiry
 Have
a computer/use the Internet?
 Have access to a
computer(s)/Internet?
 Where is the computer/technology?
 Who uses it?
 What is it used for?
 Chat rooms, emails, IM, etc.
Computer/Technology Inquiry

Who do you talk to?
 What do you talk about?
 Has anything unexpected come up on
(computer) screen that surprised you?
 Has anything come up on the (computer)
screen that made you feel uncomfortable?
 Anyone ever sent you pictures?
 What of?
Computer Inquiry

Anyone ever send you pictures of people
without their clothes on?
 Anyone ask you to send pictures?
 Anyone from a computer talk about
meeting in person?
 On-line profile?

Social Networking


Face Book, My Space, etc…
Anyone ever taken pictures of you without
clothes on?
Child Sexual Abuse &
Exploitation and the Internet
NOTE: cell phones may
soon replace computers as
#1 source of Internet
exploitation
A Quick Word on Cell Phones
3
billion worldwide currently
 By 2010, 4 billion worldwide
 Greatest
increase in numbers from
China and Africa
 Just
like a computer, but portable
The Digital Hub
Computers
Webcams
and other
cameras
Mobile
Phones
PDAs &
Smartphones
Games
Consoles
Internet
TV & Radio
VoIP
Portable
Storage
Devices
iPods and
similar
GPS
Wireless
technologies
Touch Inquiry
Information Gathering
 Types
of questions used to elicit
information
Open-ended
 Focused
 Leading

Sensory Details
See
Hear
What
Feel
Smell
Taste
did perp say?
 NEVER
interrupt a narrative
 NEVER ask “Why”
Closure
Safety Check
Questions about what discussed
Always thank child/teen
TRAFFICKING QUESTIONS
Identifying & Interviewing
the
Trafficking Victim
Identifying the Victim
May Not Be Easy Because…
May not speak local language
 May not see themselves as victims
 May feel responsible for a family debt
 Do not trust police
 Fear their traffickers
 May suffer “Stockholm Syndrome”
 May have PTSD & Memory loss
 May not yet have been exploited

7 Prima Facie Identifiers
 Age
 Gender
 Nationality
 Documents
 Last
location
 Context
 Signs of abuse
Pre-Screening for ID
•
The early identification of victims of trafficking
•
Based upon intelligence from all sources;
• The ‘local’ trafficking picture - modus operandi and trafficking
activity
• Regional and international intelligence
• Develop specific victim profiles and indicators
•
Performed by trained personnel - to include any potential first contact
officers
•
Trained or expert interviewers
•
Multi agency cooperation
• Close cooperation with all law enforcement agencies likely to come
into contact with a victim of trafficking
• A national and international referral mechanism
•
The ability and capacity to analyse information and make an assessment
Interception and Investigation
Pre-border
Port of Entry
Inland
Identification
Identification
Identification
• Visas
• Liaison officers
• IGO’s
• NGO-networks
• Profile
• Interview
Investigation
• Initiate case
• Victim support
• Secure evidence
• Premises
• Outreach
Investigation
• Full scale
• Victim support
• International
ID Stages
Three stages of identification...
1.
2.
3.
Initial assessment based on pre-interview indicators
developed ‘locally’ to reflect current intelligence picture
- pre screening
Structured interview focussed on;
a. Recruitment
b. Transportation and
c. Exploitation
Assessment of other corroborative material
ID and Interviewing
By who, where and how...
•
•
•
•
•
Victims of trafficking are most visible on destination
Mostly through “outreach” work
Referrals from NGO’s and shelters
Information from or referrals via hotlines
Rarely by law enforcement agencies (< 30%)
Indicators
•
•
•
•
Identification of victims requires interviewing
Use of profiles based on updated intelligence – avoid exceptionalism
Individual indicators:
• Malnutrition, dehydration or poor personal hygiene
• Bruising, broken bones, signs of rape or abuse
• Under somebody's control
The relationship between trafficker and victim is very complex
Interviewing
Interviewing...
• Build trust
• Think Victim not Offender
• Attitude
• Offer a phone call
• Avoid criminalization
• Do not judge
• Provide a clear message
• Believe, test and confirm the victim’s account
• The victim as a witness
• Recovery of evidence
• Focus on recruitment, transportation and exploitation
• Prevent re-victimization
• Refer to NGO or social services
• Protect identity
Interviewing the Victim
 Begin
the interview by asking
for FULL STORY
 Basics – Age, background in
origin country
Interviewing the Victim

Asking direct questions may not be
the best way to get information



Were you raped?
May get a simple “no”?
Instead, ask a general question


What did you do yesterday?
What do you do on an average day?
Questions - Recruitment
Were you approached with an offer of
help to come to this country/city?
 By whom? How?
 What help was offered?
 What were you offered? What were
you expecting when you got here?


Details of offer – money and working
conditions
Questions - Recruitment
Did you know you would be working
under these conditions?
 Was any money handed to the
recruiter?
 Do you feel cheated by this person?
 Were you forced to come with the
recruiter?

Questions - Transportation





When did you leave your village/town/city
country? When did you arrive here? How
long did the journey take?
What was the route used?
How did you cross borders? (if applicable)
Where?
What happened along the journey?


Signs of abuse, force, imprisonment. Players
Who traveled with you?

Escorts, Other Victims
Questions - Transportation
Were you allowed to keep your
passport & documents?
 Where is your passport / ID now?
 Who paid your travel costs?
 Did you /your family agree to repay
the money?
 How much?

Questions - Exploitation
What have you been doing since
arriving? Was it what you were
expecting to do?
How soon after arrival did this activity
begin?
Did you do this work freely or were
you forced to engage in the activity?
Threats, injuries, coercion
Questions - Exploitation
Were you able to move about as you wanted?
Did you try to leave/escape? What stopped
you?
What were your working conditions like?
Wages, working hours, clients, ability to
leave the job
Were you able to keep the money you made?
How much money did you have to repay?
Debt bondage
Additional Evidence

Victim’s passport




Personal details
Passport issue date & Evidence of travel
Countries visited
Entry into country & Legal status
Air/bus/train/cab documentation
or ticket
 Bogus employment contracts
 Diary or letters written by V

Final Decision
‘Prima Facie’
Identification
+
Interview
+
Additional Evidence
=
DECISION
Further Expertise on
Interviewing Kids
 Dr.
Karen Muller
&
 Karen
Hollely
 Institute
for Child Witness Research
& Training
 041.373.4122
 [email protected]